Just Let Everyone Get The Mage Tower Appearances

They do not need a specific ‘action’ to demonstrate that. They can make NEW CONTENT that does not go away and that would also demonstrate their new philosophy. Stop disguising your greed and personal interest behind false ‘justice’. You have a vested interest in the Mage Tower appearances (alt or otherwise) and are pursuing that and nothing else. We should be pushing them to make a better game and they need the time and resources in order to do that. Using them on old content benefits some, using them on new content benefits ALL.

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It’s not false justice

It’s sucks for new players to come in and be told a litany of appearances are no longer accessible.

It sucks this game has an enormous library of celebrated content rotting away in the game files .

Again, I fought for green fire for years. Ion even ridiculed the Green Fire movement for warlocks one interview back in Cataclysm.

And then it was added in Mists of Pandaria. Green fire and a title.

Green fire remained universally accessible ever since then because it was a purely optional cosmetic. Kanrethad is now a joke we can one shot.

The title was time sensitive.

But if they made Kanrethad able to be scaled, so any player would struggle as much as I did (94 attempts), I would be happy they could also get the “of the Black Harvest” title.

Because we should be rooting for players.

Because this is an MMO.

Because we should be happy to share with others what sparked joy in us.

Agreed, which is why I want the art and development team to focus resources on current content, not entertaining nostalgia.

If something is sold as time-sensitive, it is time-sensitive.

If they want to reconsider that going forward, fine.

I have every bit of confidence the art and development team are more than capable of improving upon the mage tower and introducing shadowlands-thematic cosmetics.

Hell, let’s advocate for a revision to the current legendary system and hope that that opens up the possibility for Torghast to become the next great mage tower.

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And precisely why they should put effort to make evergreen the celebrated systems of the past, and undo the countless chucking of babies out with bathwater, maintaining the struggle.

There are many ways to do that without backtracking on promises.

Titles, mounts, and cosmetics that were promoted as time-sensitive are right to remain as such.

You can still make raids, dungeons, and many celebrated systems evergreen. I think it’d be great for previous raids and dungeons to drop normal raid / m0 dungeon level loot as alternative options to gearing up alts or in the first week or so of a new patch release.

That said, I would always prefer that resources be committed to current content.

I don’t want to revisit a Legion Mage tower. I want a shadowlands Mage tower.

A legion mage tower benefits new players who wouldn’t otherwise know to have even done it.

A shadowlands mage tower benefits everyone.

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No changing the Legion Mage Tower demonstrates commitment to a new design philosophy since it would be fixing a mistake of the past in allowing content that was celebrated to remain evergreen allowing new players and returning players to challenge themselves with the same level of difficulty for the same reward.

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Where has Blizzard “promised” MT isn’t coming back? I keep seeing “promised” floated around everywhere, but that’s the one thing Blizzard very rarely, if ever, does.

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“We’re fixing our mistakes” is certainly much more resonating than “we’re going to do this thing and you just have to have faith that we won’t make the same mistake again”

Example: If a mechanic forgets to reconnect a sensor, is “Oh sorry about that it won’t happen again” more impactful than “Ok, I’ll fix it…there, it’s reconnected, and I’ll also use this as a lesson so I don’t make the same mistake”? Probably not.

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The cosmetic reward earned from MT, not the MT itself. If you’ve read my posts, you’ll know I’m not arguing against the re-emergence of a mage tower-like design.

You don’t promote a new design philosophy by breaking previous promises and entertaining nostalgia.

You do it by introducing meaningful current content.

There is nothing wrong with keeping time-sensitive rewards as time-sensitive. It’s why gladiator and cutting edge are prestigious achievements that people strive for.

If your argument is that there should be more meaningful solo content added that provides awesome and expansion-thematic rewards, I’m 100% on board with you.

If your argument is that time-sensitive rewards should be reintroduced, I disagree with you.

You can have the former without the latter.

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Do you have a link to the source of this? Again, if there’s one thing Blizzard rarely, if ever, does, it’s promising anything.

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Google it :smiley: I’m not going to do your research for you

(I cannot include links due to my trust level falling from time away from the forums).

h.ttps://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/37763-mage-tower-challenges-will-always-be-up-later-during-legion/

They stated that the mage tower will be going away, yet I do not see them stating anywhere that the models used would never return.

“That IS how it will work. The Mage Tower challenges will cease being available in 8.0, but if you’ve earned any base appearances you can take your time unlocking their variants.” - Ion, the game director’s twitter. (This was linked in the Icy-Veins post).

Again, nothing ever saying anything about the models never being used again. Just that the MT is gone.

The classic “I’m making a claim but putting the burden of proof on you” argument. Nice try.

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So two things:

  1. Where did they promise anything?
  2. Where did they say that MT or their appearances will never return?

Blizzard (especially Ion) speaks in legalese for a reason.

No, it’s the “it’s common knowledge that the mage tower was promoted as offering time sensitive rewards, and I’m not going to take the time to search the internet for your benefit” argument.

If it’s common knowledge, the burden is on you.

Google “time sensitive legion mage tower artifact appearances” or any variant. You’ll find plenty.

Wrong again. You’re stating that Blizzard “promised” things. I’m demanding proof of a “promise” being made. You have failed to offer it yet claim it’s common knowledge. Nice try.

They said MT will cease to exist. Ion confirmed on Twitter. Their appearances however, I cannot find a source that claims they’ll never be back.

Now i’m trying to find out where they said it’ll never return. “Cease to exist” is not “never will return”. So, let me see what i can find.

As you said, there is enough “legalese” for some wiggle room. I’m trying to find hard yes/no statements.

“The Mage Tower challenges will cease being available in 8.0” means:

  1. In 8.0, the MT challenge won’t be available. No mention about “and beyond”

  2. “Cease being available” does NOT mean “will never return”.

Once you understand how Ion speaks, it becomes much clearer that cards are very rarely ever taken off the table.

I still see no mention of “promises”.

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You people have to be trolling. No one can be this obtuse.

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No, I was looking for a source for people’s claims. If you have it, that’d be great. :confused:

There was a blue post I found that attributed the mage tower to other legendary quest lines and such and it was to serve as a badge of honor. I cannot link the blue post since it fizzes out and brings me back to the main forum page. (h.ttps://blizzardwatch.com/2018/05/31/blizzard-removing-mage-tower-appearance/)

This is as good as we’re going to get I believe. But then I counter, what about the order hall sets? They’re recolors of the “badge of honor” challenge mode sets.

“Greetings players! Our dragon friend Chronormu has been up to her usual tricks and with the assistance of the bronze dragon flight, she’s figured out a way to twist back time so that when players step foot into the Broken Isles, they’ll once again be able to step foot into the mage tower!”

Due to Blizzard’s lore team creating an entire flight of dragons that can control time, especially given Timewalking, I don’t think anything is ever away for good if Blizzard wanted to go back and let players redo stuff.

I wouldn’t want them to do that, because I’m on the team of them keeping the MT appearances unique, but allowing for recolors. However, Blizzard wrote themselves an out with timewalking. We’re getting legion TW mythics, so I can see folks who argue to bring it back in TW, like that one thread did.