My design philosophies are actually fair, I just don’t care to cave in to crybabies is all. If something was to be removed, it stays removed, not to return again.
Nonetheless, I would not miss you if you went to a different game. I would not miss any entitled players, either. WoW would have a standard and I would keep to it, nothing more and nothing less.
What? I’m confused. They said they are retiring the mounts until a later time. Which means retired =/= forever. I’m confused.
“Only people who played at a certain time have access to this.” “I’m fair”. Lol.
Didn’t you just also call your side crybabies?
You did. Lol.
I mean Mc’Donalds “removes” their McRib every year and it comes back. Wendy’s brought back spicy nuggets after removing them. Sometimes removed things return.
I wouldn’t expect you to. Blizzard would miss my money though. Your philosophies are sounding like the exact thing that got WoW into the state its in now.
So the players who don’t want it to return because too bad aren’t entitled?
Again, this “standard” is what is screwing up the game now. I’m glad Blizzard is finally starting to see that.
Aside from the flamebaits from one person here.
I still think that the t6 mythic recolours from ToS are going to be the rewards for the return of the MT.
But in like every single thread regarding “bring back things that I want because it’s unfair cuz reasons” it’s not going towards the bigger picture. Fomo is lame? yes. Needed? depends but usually no. Is it incredible lame that blizzard let people farm for warglaives, smourne or cata legendaries while older legendaries and titles are gone? not really but it’s removed content regardless.
I did 36/36 before 7.3 and I didnt get jack for it but “bragging” rights that nobody actually cares… hell they didn’t ever give anything special for dedicated people for 36/36 that would actually be “bragging” rights if you think about it… not a fomo move. This could be applied for all things that they removed. With the exception probably of AQ event… vanilla naxxramas and atiesh is another excuse that people love to bring as counter argument with vanilla servers out there the files are very much alive.
All this fuss when it’s a tier recolour set that people might get the chance to get everytime legion timewalking is up… anyway.
That is being fair. They were there, they got the items they wanted or cared to do. Life sucks sometimes, get used to it. If you can’t, oh well, sucks for you. People don’t cater to anyone else, and games wouldn’t be an exception, either.
I did, but the ones on my side aren’t being actual entitled crybabies, they’re just defending work, prestige, honor, whatever else you wanna call it. They did the work and were there.
Sometimes they do, yeah, but I’m not in charge of those things. If I were, if they were removed they’d be gone or not removed in the first place.
They would not. Every 3 tokens sold is a free subscription out of nowhere that never existed and doesn’t belong to anyone. If you think they can’t makedo with things like this, you’re very naive.
No, them caving in to crybabies and being wishy washy is actually what got them in to this and releasing bad content or no content at all and calling it content. Them half assing things is what got them in this position. Them being bad at understanding how a class should play is how they got in this position.
No, they were there. The ones who don’t want it to return are fine as is. If you were to be robbed and shoot a criminal, of course the criminal would try to say the person who they robbed was the one to blame. This is not the case, however, but nonetheless it would be stated. The entitled players wanting to get it back would be the criminal and the ones not wanting it back would be the person who got robbed in this example. Again, I’m all for creating new things but I’m not for bringing back older things said to be expansion only just because “I want it now!” – not gonna happen.
No, the sense of entitlement from players and the wishywashy from blizzard on trying to please every single person is what is messing the game up. The things messing the game up is also releasing content half assed, releasing bad systems, not balancing things enough, not wanting to do balance changes a lot more frequently, not understanding how classes work, not understanding how loot works. Other things as well, like keeping patches out for way too long, etc.
Why get used to when you can change?
Lol. I’m fair because sometimes life is unfair. Nice.
They are.
Work that comes with the new MT as well. They are not defending work, they are defending when they did the work. Which no one who wants the appearances back is trying to take from them. Keep your achievement dates.
Yeah, their epeen. I’ve been saying that.
Cool. If they add it back then people can say the same thing. We did the work, we were there (in timewalking).
Good.
I mean I agree they shouldn’t be gone in the first place, but removing them entirely would piss off a lot of people. Glad you aren’t in charge.
Any loss of money to a company is missed.
If you think I’m the only one who would quit you’re very naïve.
Them caving to crybabies would be your side too.
Like working on content and then removing it.
Most of the changes in 9.1.5 are because of “entitled” players. So your wrong. Again.
So did everyone. Agatha was the ridiculously easy challenge of the set, and at one point was bugged and made even easier.
Again, and again, and again, no one cares if Blizzard throws some warped version of the challenges back into the game. The original rewards were the point of objection, and they aren’t coming back.
The appearances weren’t retired. They ended with the expansion as planned. You’re being obtuse.
Because that’s the way the world works. You cannot change when a volcano is gonna blow. You cannot change some things in life. Things happen and you can learn to adapt, you can prepare, you can learn from the past. You do not change what happened in the past, and get better for the future. A fact in life, though, is that sometimes life just sucks.
If you can’t acknowledge life is sometimes unfair to people, then you’re very naive. Some people are born with abnormalities, some people are born to bad circumstances. Again, sometimes life just sucks. Accept it, understand it and move on.
No, they’re not asking for older things to come back. They are keeping it where it’s been.
No, don’t get things twisted. It was said to not be coming back, and under that premise people did it faster and more people did it.
You keep trying to make it out to be “I’m better than you” it’s not even remotely that to everyone. You may not care, but a lot of us care that we did it and it was done. It’s not coming back to spit on our faces, no.
Timewalking is not the same as actually being there. Having a time machine and going back to Legion and doing it is being there.
Yeah, cause you’d be outa luck.
I, again, would not remove them in the first place, but if they did get removed then yeah they would be gone. There was a reason they got removed.
Sure, pinching pennies that way but a bigger loss to any company is not being true to your word and showing your audience they can walk all over you. Rep is a lot more to most big companies than the tidbits of pennies from a sub.
You mean you and the 200 people here, but not the millions of others? Yeah, that’s pretty good.
No.
You mean time limited content that’s entire design was to be removed? Yeah. That’s not half assing, that’s sticking to a time limited design. If the content was originally planned that way then it is planned that way. Sticking to it staying gone is not half assing, bringing it back is.
Ah, so you’re gonna play the 5 year old again I see. Fair enough, we can go that route.
Funny. A druid in here earlier was saying it was hard for her as feral. I have had some pretty nasty responses because I dared to call any of the MT challenges easy. Careful. I did prot warrior really fast too. I blinked and the first boss was almost dead after I used my KJ trinket. I think it crit and chunked him massively.
Source please.
Tell that to the people claiming they were then.
Link me this plan. I still haven’t seen anything stating they’d never come back. At least not from Blizzard themselves.
Yeah, lets just accept it and move on. Again, I’m glad people like you werent in charge in the 1800s, we’d still have slaves and women wouldn’t be able to vote. Cuz that was “just the way the world worked” back then. And before you try and say I’m comparing slavery and womens rights to pixels in a game, I’m not. I never have. I’m explaining why your world view is horrible. Its that simple.
Obviously. But who knows, in a few hundred years we may invent a lid or something that prevent them from erupting. Who knows. Several hundred years ago a tv sounded like science fiction. Hell a hundred years ago a cell phone sounded like science fiction.
Says you. Stop putting others down to make yourself feel better. Its gross.
No one is trying to.
That doesn’t make it fair though. Which was the point. Fairness. I get sometimes things aren’t fair, everyone does. This does not have to be one of those things.
I can. Everyone can. But your saying your fair because something is unfair. Thats kind of an oxymoron.
I was born disabled. I know. And no I won’t go into it, take me at my word or don’t, I don’t care.
I was born into a poor family and lived in a trailer for a couple years.
I do. This does not have to be one of the times just because you say so. Sorry.
You keep saying this while still providing no proof. I’m going to completely ignore anytime you say this in the future because its a lie and you have yet to prove to me otherwise.
It boils down to that everytime though. Why else are people arguing about when they did it instead of the challenge? Because they know the challenge can be achieved again. So its all they have left. That argument is only there because they don’t want other people to have something they do, and its only out of spite. Thats called “flexing your epeen”.
I never said it was the same. But people can use it for the same argument you did. That was my point.
If thats true then maybe I wouldn’t mind you being in charge. They should never remove anything ever bar achievements which hold no value other than to flex. “Look at this achievement I have for doing this thing.”
Still going on about that “promise”. Sigh.
I mean thats $3000 a month in sub fees. $10000 in expansion sales assuming $50 an expansion. Loss of store revenue. Potential loss of revenue in other Blizzard games. Theres a reason whenever you try and quit or unsub from something they try to stop you, because they care about your money. If they didn’t then unsubbing would be a 1 and done click. Remember the old “your making the peon cry” page you’d get sent to when you unsubbed from WoW back in the day? I do.
Yes. You yourself literally called your side crybabies. I quoted it at you.
I’ll do it again.
Tell that to the multi-rights fighters.
Yes, natural phenomena cannot be changed. You can protect yourself from them, run away.
Exclusive rewards - construct. It can be changed.
Exactly. Thank you.
It actually makes me happy that people on his side think this way. It helps prove my point that they’re wrong and have horrible viewpoints on things.
I wonder what forums on the internet would have looked like back in those days regarding those subjects and others. I cringe thinking at some of the potential responses.
The gross thing is your very naive sense of humor. You said you were 30, act like an adult, not a kid.
What you’re trying to imply here, is that your level of fairness is ideal and again no. To you, you want everyone to have things like MT skins as they were. To me, that is not fair to those who were there and got it. Again, people aren’t saying you can’t bring it back. People are saying no to the same exact skins if it came back. Recolors are fine. Remodels are fine. They’re not the same exact rewards, which is fine and fair. Bringing back the exact rewards, color and models included, is not fair to those who got it under the impression it was going away and never coming back. So again, fair to you is not fair to others. Stop trying to twist bs around.
No, I’m saying I’m fair to those who did it because they did it under the impression it was not coming back. Again, I’m not trampling over their work and rewards, you are by bringing it back exactly with exact skins and all included, which is not fair to those who worked hard. If that were the case, I would make it an impossibility where it scaled 150 item levels ahead of your current character that only the top of the top of the top of the top could possibly have a chance at beating, no?
Bringing it back is bad. Why? because if they brought it back difficult, then there would be hundreds of threads, just like with Torghast, where they kept asking for it to be nerfed. Torghast wasn’t difficult when it premiered, but a lot of people it was too difficult for and then it got wrecked with nerfs. Same thing with twisting corridors, the one that was supposed to be very tough for people. Once you start caving in the entitlement doesn’t stop until it’s handed to everyone very easily. All of it being done under “Make it easier, it’s too hard for me” – which again was the point of having challenges.
I do take you at your word, as I don’t know you, nor do I actually care, again.
It does, if I were in charge, yeah.
Cool, ignore it or don’t You’d ignore it anyways since proof was given, but doesn’t matter to you anyways. Like I said, I’m not trying to win this convo crap here, I’m telling you what they said, nothing more and nothing less.
No, it doesn’t. It boils down to it was a time limited event to be done away with at the end of the expansion and not come back. It boils down to keeping it to that, and not even timewalking is able to save it.
No, it’s again keeping to a premise that it was going away to not return again. You can keep conflating your ego, though, and I couldn’t care. We’ve beat this dead horse but I’ll go every round you’re trying to go here and others like you who try to walk all over that timed event and give the same exact rewards. Nobody cares if they did a recolor or something, only those ones earned in the same exact skin and style as the ones during Legion’s MT specifically. If you and others have a problem with this, then that’s on you. If you can’t accept a recolor or reskin, again, that’s on you. That’s the compromise here, or not at all.
No, they can’t.
The entire point of an achievement is to flex. Sorry if you disagree with this, but if you did not have achievements and all you needed was just to know, then there would not be achievements. The entire premise of achievements is showing off. If you disagree, go read a psychology book. You’ll learn a thing or two.
Yes, keeping to your word, sticking to your guns is actually one of the most important things in life. If you’re not a man of your word then that just sucks. People lose trust in you.
And again, 200 people vs millions is still pennies to the dollar, which was the entire point there.
Yes, keep to that 5 year old. We both knew you know what I was demonstrating in that, but do please try to lawyer speak to the best of your abilities here and stick to the 5 year old’s tantrum hanging onto every word/statement/phrasing used. I might actually give you a few more to hang on to at some point as well.
Exclusive rewards are exclusive. The entire premise of them is that, exclusivity. You were there, you did it, you got it. Others not there did not do it, could not get it.
Almost 30. I haven’t acted childish once. Your view of how the world should be is very old fashioned though. Maybe some of these “children” could teach you a thing or two.
Why? Is the only reason its unfair because those players did it first? That is an extremely weak argument. A fair one I’ll give you, but a weak one.
Yes, you are. Well to be more specific your saying they shouldn’t bring it back. Why not?
I know. But why. Why do they care? I mean I’ve heard the arguments that boil down to epeen flex and spite. Are there others? The “time-sensitive” one? Thats a weak one, but a fair one I guess.
We can have both then. I’m not asking for just the old models back. Something new would be cool too. We don’t need to have it be one or the other.
You getting the wrong impression is not other peoples fault. Sorry.
Giving everyone equal opportunity to earn something is not fair to others. Lol.
I’m not twisting anything. But okay.
Again, its not someone elses fault that you or anyone else got the wrong impression. They do not deserve to be punished because you had the wrong impression. Blizzard never said they were never coming back, you thought they did. You got the impression they said it. They didn’t.
Neither are we.
No, because they still get to keep their skins. The skins I earned do not vanish with the return of the Mage Tower. Someone else getting them does not take them away from me. My memories of doing the 4 years ago remain. I lose nothing by others getting an appearance that some people use to flex at others who don’t have it, because I don’t do that.
Yeah because thats totally how it worked back when other people did it. So it’d be totally fair /s.
I don’t think your even trying at this point. Your just trying to grasp at straws because you think your losing something and don’t want it taken away. Your not losing anything, stop worrying.
Thats not a bad thing. There will always be people crying something is too hard. Sorry. Thats fair. Thats why I’m asking for the MT to be challenging. At bare minimum it should have the same challenge as 7.3.5 did, which admittedly is not much for a lot of people, but I wouldn’t complain.
I never asked it to be nerfed. Maybe your mad that Blizzard caved in. Maybe thats why you seem so passionate here. Sorry. Giving in is not always a bad thing. Look at covenant swapping restrictions, conduit energy, legendaries, etc, that they are changing in 9.1.5 because they are caving to player demand. Again, caving can be a good thing.
I don’t remember it being nerfed but to be fair I stopped caring after I completed it shortly after it released. Once mounts were usable in the Maw I stopped caring completely.
Thats why I’m always specifying it should be challenging and not asking for it handed to me on silver platter.
This has nothing to do with bringing the challenge back and giving the same rewards. We’re not asking for easier, we’re asking for equal opportunity.
It wasn’t. Icy Veins saying something =/= Blizzard saying something. They didn’t even say Blizzard said it, they just said it themselves.
Thats the entire purpose of timewalking. To be scaled down as if it was current content again. Only problem is numbers. Numbers had to be squished because WoW runs on a system that can’t handle numbers too high. I believe they stated this is why they designed the Garrosh fight the way they did and then did a numbers squish for WoD, they hit the numbers cap.
No such premise ever given. Only assumed.
If you have a problem with people earning your coveted pixels thats on you.
I can. I want both though. Why should I have to settle for just want you want? I’m not asking for just one thing, you are. I’d love for both to be a thing, more things for everyone. Yay.
My way or not at all. I’m compromising. Lol.
Yes, thats why I’m telling people not to worry, they get to keep their achievement with the date on it from 4 years ago. They can use that to flex with.
I agree. Good thing they never promised.
Are you trying to say millions would quit if the appearances were brought back? I doubt it.
Fine. Make it exclusive to completing the challenge, not when you completed it.
So if I go into the timewalking MT I can say “I was there in the MT, I did it, I earned it.”
Agreed, people unable to complete the MT do not deserve it. Good thing its coming back and being scaled down to what current Legion numbers look like. Thanks Blizzard.
Why can’t we just not all agree on them not continuing to do fomo content in the casual scene instead of demanding removed content back? 
They should do both. Stop doing it and reintroduce all of the FOMO stuff from before.
Exclusivity is a human construct. Anything people come up with can be ignored, changed, or used.
Exclusive rewards may become publicly available. They can become the default option. They can be removed from the game completely.
Calls his side crybabies and says crybabies should not be listened to. Maybe if he keeps going I’ll be able to string together quotes of just him and make it look like he is arguing with himself.
On this, I am going to disagree - as someone who wasn’t able to complete the challenge and get the bear challenge appearance, thus not get the achievement.
Rewards for excellence in gameplay is fine. It actually encourages engagement as people learn more about their class/spec in order to achieve the goal. In many instances, this included learning how to utilize, well, utilization. Learning Ursol’s Vortex caused an interruption in casting as well as simply keeping the mob away from you. Lessons that make playing in the world more fun and make you a better team mate in group content. Walking about with an appearance that demonstrates your knowledge of all aspects of that class/spec should signify to other players you can be trusted in a role (unless you’re a jerk, but there is nothing Blizzard can do to fix your personality - that’s a you problem).
That said, making the appearances “limited time” is idiotic. Clearly Blizzard still does understand their player base nor do they take any effort to. There are so many times I see someone, completely jazzed and ready to roll up sleeves to get, say the Spellwing, or the Mage Tower appearance only to be told these are no longer in game - and its heartbreaking to see that engagement literally wither on the vine.
No one, and I mean NO ONE cares that you got the cool appearance back when it was a thing. All they care about is if it is still available to pursue. And people are willing to go to great lengths to earn that appearance. If Blizzard had a functioning brain cell, they would realize that this translates into “easy picking” MAU as players sink time, not just in getting one class or spec down, but in ramping up, at the minimum, 11 other classes and their related specs. For folks like me, that’s running 11 (now 9) classes through Shadowlands but for some, that’s ramping up 11 specs through all the content.
I had argued back at the end of Legion that the Mage Tower, in and of itself, was sufficient to drive engagement for another three months as players hurriedly sought to complete their appearances. Three months for Blizzard to polish BfA. I then argued that brining back the Mage Tower idea, just updating the mechanics, at the end of each expansion and putting all the past CM appearances on it would fuel the long tail of end-game and buy time for Blizzard to make any last minute course corrections on the next expansion. Because there are always new players, or players now able to do what they couldn’t do back when the older CM appearances were available.
Because let’s face it. No one cares that you got a CM appearance in Mists. All anyone cares about is if it’s attainable. And if those appearances are locked behind a skill gate, then those appearances continue to tell the tale that you earned them through your skills in that class and spec - no matter when you got them.
So yeah, I would put every CM appearance and mount, as well as the old AOTC mounts behind the “Mage Tower.” I’d even put deprecated appearances Blizzard took out of the game in Cata behind that, put Aetish in there. Let people earn them. Even keep it rare by only having the Mage Tower available between the last patch of the old expansion and the first patch of the next (though there is more MAU value in keeping that challenge content more openly available). Let people have a chance to get the cool things that were available before they started playing, or before they were in a position to earn them.