"Just ignore the timer!1!"

Well define equal, because the “equal” i’m always been given is to make the suggestion significantly worse to play because… they think the suggestion will take their M+ away for some reason, when both can co-exist. If their fine with Raids existing, then their fine with this.

Challenging yes, but fun to play, no.

In the addition, this engine isn’t built for platforming, unlike GW2.

It being fun, is half of the reason why i do these. There’s a reason why there’s hardly any vision achievements under my belt, because it’s just not fun to go and it’s just more frustrating. You can keep the rewards.

How many people you think are going to play if the reward is lowered? This is why i question whenever somebody says “As along the rewards match up or be lowered” here, especially as you said here, that reward/challenge is just as important as fun. If i do a challenging (By the way, don’t think i didn’t see the implication you’re setting up here, untimed doesn’t mean it’s automatically easier, let’s just squash this misconception right now, because it’s never been proven to be objective) untimed dungeons, and i get loot from a 2+ that is just on the same level as heroic dungeons, i’m not going to use it as much.

If however, you’re saying “It needs to be 1 or 2 levels below M+” like a 2+ Untimed is equal to a M0, UN5+ to M3+, and etc… i mean guess that works, i don’t think people will mind too much over a little sacrifice like that. :man_shrugging:

…Why it has to be different every time you run it exactly?

Yes, my suggestions will put these objects in different places, much like how Torghast does them, but it’s not going to be RNG, on top of RNG, on top of RNG, on top of RNG, on top of RNG with a side order of RNG and a swig of RNG to finish it off, diffrent everytime you run it. Some staticity is fine.

I mean bosses on average, aren’t this dynamic everytime you run a dungeon, like “Oh it’s a hogger boss this time, but he shoots fireballs, and summons deathwing, and making us fly in dragons like in the oculus, except all our dragons can only fire sheep out of their mouths, and we have to learn the hokey pokey”. Or what, were going to say “Oh no, it’s good that the bosses are static, because memorization and–” if that’s the case, why not puzzles then, because isn’t that also half of it’s point as well?..

Being honest with you, given how Torghast turned out, given how they used dynamism there, it’s not always going to be a good thing or a thing that makes challenging/fun stuff. Especially when it goes wrong like it did where it placed a chest on a ledge that i’m unable to get to until i’ve spent, no joke, 40 minutes with my engineering gadgets. What about to somebody who doesn’t have that? That floor is un-100% able which that will dip into their score if their looking for a flawless or 4 star run.

Why exactly you’re in this mindset of either extreme of “Either it needs to be super duper hard or it will just be easier!” instead of thinking this with nuance?

…Where i’ve suggested a easier mode?.. I’ve said “challenging untimed dungeons”. Not easier dungeons… Those two things are not the same things.

…Okay? … A minority of people will always try to pick the best and efficient option. I still don’t see the problem here?