I mean, the thing that really struck me is we’re all meant to feel bad for her during the Theramore event, but she then went and tried to do the same thing as Garrosh on a larger scale and would have if Thrall hadn’t stopped her.
If there’s anything we can agree on it’s that Lord of the Clans was a good story.
However, I’m going to explode if I’m playing WoW and get forced to watch another episode of Jaina Ball Z and watch her save something that’d otherwise be unwinnable by just freezing half of the ocean or directly freezing the thing itself.
I’m actually go out on a limb here. I think Lord of the Clans was flawed. Like thinking back, Blackmoore was just written to be cartoonishly evil and as much as I love WC3-era Thrall, she did sort of make him a bit of a Sue. Remember how he’s supposed to like an absolute giant of an orc, perfectly ambidextrous and the greatest shaman ever seen while also the heir to the, let’s be perfectly honest here, supremely Sue-ish Frostwolf Clan.
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Yeah, that is true actually.
I don’t think that’s a fair or accurate assessment.
The Sunreavers were not persecuted due to being Blood Elves. They were persecuted due to using Kirin Tor resources to aid the Horde in stealing the Divine Bell. Jaina accused Aethas and the Sunreavers of orchestrating the theft and thus declared the expulsion of all Sunreaver forces from Dalaran.
While not having been directly involved in the theft himself, Aethas had been aware of it and chose to remain silent, but he refused to leave Dalaran, citing that the city belonged to the Sunreavers’ as much as it did any other. In response, Jaina imprisoned him within the Citadel and began mobilizing the Silver Covenant, under the command of Vereesa Windrunner, to begin forcibly dealing with any Sunreavers who refused to surrender.
Compliant Sunreavers were imprisoned, but many proved defiant in the face of exile from Dalaran and took up arms against Jaina, the Alliance forces, and the Silver Covenant.
Your reduction of the events of the Purge of Dalaran to a “race riot” is really dishonest.
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jainas war crimes trial should have been next on the docket following garroshs trial
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I thought we were talking about cake… and ice cream.
The Sunreavers didn’t use Kirin Tor resources to aid the Horde, a Sunreaver acting separately from his organisation did. Even before I read anything else collective punishment against ethnic minorities is a war crime.
Maybe Jaina didn’t realise they weren’t connected to the crime, but her immediate response wasn’t to find out more and punish the guilty parties, but instead to punish all of Dalaran’s blood elves.
Aethas was scared it would result in punitive reprisals against the Sunreavers. He was right. It did. And as you pointed out he was not directly involved.
Okay, off the top of my head:
- In the sewers the Silver Covenant was just straight up slaughtering innocents
- You the player kill a guy in order to take his money
- You the player cut off the Sunreavers’ mode of exit
Someone obviously hasn’t done the Horde version of that questline.
I haven’t done any version of this quest line on either side can one still do them?? I would like to see it.
Yeah you can, if you wanna ez-clap the reputation involved you can buy reputation tokens during MoP Timewalking.
I need rep to do it? Do I need rep on both an Alliance and Horde or is one rep on one enough to qualify for both?
Yeah you need exalted with Operation Shieldwall or the Dominance offensive to do the whole thing and it’s character specific so you can’t just jump on an alt to do it.
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It’s per character I believe, I did it on my DK and rogue during MoP and I remember having to grind dailies serperately.
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I don’t put it all on her, she wrote the book with complete cooperation of the WoW writing team. She didn’t mess with Horde leaders all on her own.
Actually I just remembered, once you hit revered with one of them you can buy a token from them for cheap that doubles rep gained with them for your entire account, but also doubles rep with the opposite faction so getting it the second time is a lot easier.
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The reasons being the developers simply don’t want to, despite the storyline being there and the demand. The reasons being about things outside of the lore, and more about perceptions regarding gameplay mechanics (that don’t hold up on closer inspection in my opinion).
Yes.
Warcraft 2. They were jerks then. Mostly the whole werewolf thing kinda made them realize that isolation wasn’t a good idea.
However, they’re cool now (werewolf thing is cherry on top).
Thank you.
If they are there, available as a faction, why would it be dumb to make them playable?
More populous than void elves, been around in the Alliance longer than void elves and Dark Iron, and highly requested.
Further, in armor, in PvP (only ONE area of the game), can you really fully identify every aspect of your opponent(s)? So much so that it will distract you? Really? Aside from top end PvPers, I doubt most people can tell the difference between different possible elf opponents when in armor (a few transmog sets as an exception given how revealing they are). Given that they are top end, I also doubt it distracts them.
So what’s your reason for them being dumb?
The prolonged bickering?
Since Allied Races were announced.
Prior to that, every so often the topic would come up as a wild hair and there’d be a short term bickering period.
But since allied race announcements, it’s been in a prolonged state.
Unfortunately, that cynical pragmatism is spot on.
Given the unceasing demand for high elves on the Alliance, I’d say at this point they do make business sense. There’s no data to suggest there’d be a mass exodus of Horde players from the game over it.
There is evidence to suggest a lot of people would play one ($), potentially race swap to one ($$), or buy a level boost for one ($$$).
For the first one, I’m sorry, but that was inevitable as soon as she became war chief. I do feel for you though.
As for the second? I also feel for you. Ogres and / or Mok’nathal should be Horde playable.
Not a bad analogy. If I may add one bit — the hamburger is also not cooked to specification.
Exactly.
So long as Alliance playable Silver Covenant High Elves are a thing FIRST, then we can talk about the void elf customizations (the ones that make them look more like a regular high / blood elf).
Players are asking for the Silver Covenant, and there are more outside of the Silver Covenant than you realize.
Go to the various lodges in game or Outland for the Allerian Stronghold.
There are plenty enough around, and far more than there are Void Elves.
Population isn’t an argument anymore since the void elves are supposedly a ‘crack elite squad’…whereas playable high elves are at minimum 1% of the surviving 10% of the population of Thalassian elf (and that’s not including the ones that weren’t IN quel’thalas when it was destroyed by Arthas…who primarily sided with the Alliance too).
Exactly, and there are high elves aligned with the Alliance.
Alliance leaning members of Dalaran.
Agreed. Not to mention Pandaria they are part of the Alliance side of attacking the Thunder Isle.
Yep.
Possible, but it could just be indexing the right models.
Yep.
Agreed. Plausible scenario.
And you know what? Even if it’s just a game indexing thing — it still shows High elves are actively part of the Alliance in a military capacity.
Still a good reason for them to be playable.
An even stronger reason if they are directly part of Alliance military and not an Alliance leaning faction of a neutral city.
Yep.
Citation needed. The above examples so far in this thread as well as actual gameplay as an Alliance player are contrary to this statement.
Agreed, but unfortunately this is a very common argument by people who are anti playable HE. Despite it being completely inaccurate or at best, highly lacking full context of that situation.
Someone has obviously not done the Alliance version either. (or has forgotten major context around it).
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I’m aware that the Alliance’s version has less murder of innocent civilians, but it’s still there. And it doesn’t mean that Jaina isn’t responsible for what happens in the Horde version.
I’m aware of the context. A horrible thing happened that made Jaina do two horrible things.
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… I think I may have misunderstood your post.
It seemed like you were positing it as a reason for why Silver Covenant Alliance High Elves shouldn’t be playable.
I think I misunderstood.
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Had Aethas come forward punitive action would have likely only been enacted against the individuals responsible, and the Sunreavers would likely have been part enforcing the roundup of traitors.
As the leader of the Sunreavers, coming forward once he was made aware would have been a fairly strong indicator of loyalty to the Kirin Tor and the Sunreavers disgust at the actions of some rogue individuals. Instead he chose to hide the fact and thus made himself complicit and the Sunreavers as a whole complicit by virtue of their silence.
There was no “collective punishment against ethnic minorities”, because the fact that the Sunreavers are Blood Elves is irrelevant to why they were persecuted. There was collective punishment against an organization that committed a crime in Dalaran.
Jaina had every reason to expel the Sunreavers as a whole. You say it was one rogue individual… but how is she to know that? Especially when the leader of the Sunreavers kept that information a secret instead of letting her know as soon as possible. That omission is a sign of culpability.
You’re absolutely right that the Silver Covenant was committing heinous acts! High Elves using the purge to take out their political aggression against their Blood Elf counterparts. I’m not denying or approving of this fact. But the purge was NOT a “race riot” by any stretch. It was a reprisal for a crime committed by an organization not an attack on Blood Elves as a people.
You anti’s like to say Blood Elves are High Elves right? If the Purge was a “race riot” then ALL Thalassians would have been persecuted in Dalaran… which clearly they were not.
Someone clearly doesn’t know what a race riot is and should not reference such when ignorant on the topic. My mother lived through our RL race riots and recounted them in vivid horrific detail to me. A race riot the Purge was not. I take personal offense to the implication that it was.
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“It’s your fault you were the victim of a war crime!”
Oh yeah, it just happened to be a city-wide persecution of one race. That had nothing to do with it.
Yeah, so the funny thing about collective punishments? They’re always a crime against humanity.
No, she didn’t. They were innocent.
Yeah, it’s not like she should investigate something before she arrests an entire minority in a city.
Hey neat, you’re painting an entire group with a wide brush too! Just like Jaina!
How so? Are you saying that the high elves and blood elves of Dalaran are one homogeneous population?
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