Well that’s what we were coming up to in BFA. The whole faction war thing is just so stupid. Like, god. It’s been 2 years or something in-universe since Garrosh and we’re already digging another Warchief out of Orgrimmar.
But realistically when haven’t they been evil even when Thrall was in charge most of the stuff I mentioned kind of happened under his watch although he did temper the orcs a lot the stuff the blood elves and undead got up to was pretty dang bad.
Blizzard thinks being evil is cool which is why they keep trying to push the horde that way only to pull back when the userbase complains.
I genuinely do not know why they picked “faction war” as the theme after legion anyway. It made zero sense to go that route. But, now that we have…peace seems very, very bizarre after Teldrassil. It simply isn’t plausible anymore.
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but thats the thing they arnt all evil. like yea theres been questionable decisions made but for example the undead leader is sylvanus, the actual current big bad.
sylvanus was ordering them to manufacture the plague and before sylvanus they were all under the comman of the lich king until she fread them from his influence.
this makes them not actually evil. everytime they have commited any act that can be considered evil it was under the command of sylvanus.
the blood elves also were following the command of thier leader at the time, and since then have generally been a force of good not evil.
garosh was a horrible person, but he was put in charge of the horde despite even telling thrall hed be a bad leader, and yet thrall did it anyways and then left to become jesus. garosh being an orcish warlord then lead the horde like an orish warlord thats all he knew how to do, eventually becoming this thing everyone hated but then he was pardoned by the 4 pandaren animal gods who said he wasnt to blame for everything that had happened he was a victim of circumstance, but then thrall went to execute him anyways.
the horde istelf was not to blame though, if anything thrall was the villain there for making decisions he never should have made.
in the case of sylvaas sylvanas has never been a good character, she has always, always been this malicious evil queen of the dead who only cares about the forsaken shes even said this multiple times and that in order to dsave her people she joined the horde.
this is why the horde was given the option to turn against her, and why its made very clear that no one really likes sylvanas, because shes clearly evil
It’s made quite clear in the Durotar questline that there’s two lines of thinking in Durotar, people who follow Thrall’s philosophy and people who follow Garrosh’s philosophy.
Yes, the Horde keeps taking the villain bat for the benefit of lazy writers, but the people of the Horde, story-wise at least, are plenty willing to stand up to their own leaders.
so no, the horde itself has never been evil. its leader have been.
i didnt see monori mentioning arthas who was an alliance leader who literally slaughtered millions and then turned into the lich king only to raise those millions again as ghouls and other undead and slaughtered an entire country
I generally hold people responsible for their own actions. If you participated in razing a town and butchering its civilian populace, you’re probably evil, even if there was a gun to your head to make you do it.
Literal mind control is an exception there, but by and large, post-Arthas, the Forsaken were not mind controlled at all…
there are way more things the alliance have done that everyone considered morally wrong. lemme go grab more examples
Because people like Christie Golden are writing for them. The current Blizzard writers cannot write Horde well and have trouble with building up antagonists. Two things that led them down the inevitable path of BFA.
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yes thats fair, but those were soldiers. theres mroe than just soldiers in the horde and also theres more than those few soldiers who commited the act. just because these 8 guys killed somone but you sat there and watched doesnt make you the one who killed that person x3 i mean its bad that you just watched but its not the same as actually commiting the act
the ones who actually did somthing wrong are the ones who should be punished, not the ones who didnt do anything
i mean the vulpera for instance would be lumped in with the horde being evil and they joined after sylvanus had left when there wasnt even a warchief and all they have done is been helpful and friendly. but no they are evil because the horde is as a whole right?
vol’jhin just wnated peace, bain and his father have just wanted piece, thrall just wanted peice
We’re typically talking about the soldiers here. I thought that was a given. No one in their right minds is going to say a civilian is evil for something their army did. That would be kind of silly. And yes, not -every- Horde soldier is evil. But, their armed forces have been in the villain role enough for people to make that generalization, especially about the troops we usually see committing atrocities (for some reason, it’s mostly goblins, orcs and trolls; it’s…notable that there’s not one single Tauren to be found in Brennedam).
yes thats fair, but the alliance and the horde are also at war, and the allaince started the conflict at dalaran by essentially ammasing weapons there any logical faction would take action when they are threatened like that.
sylvanus even says it wasnt her intention to burn the place or kill innocents but that just happened because its a war.
garosh has even been seen many times actively speaking out against the harming of innocents and those who cant defend themselves and he is considered the most eveil character in the game aside from yknow the demons and stuff.
It…happened because Sylvie has serious psychological issues. She flipped out and ordered it, and the Horde immediately complied.
yes, and as ive said shes the big bad.
they were fighting a war, you cant expect the soldiers to not comply however she didnt need to give that order
Not complying with flat out evil orders is a heroic staple in fiction.
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yes, but its alot more complicated than that.
the same thing can be said about bain choosing to stay with and help his wounded people instead of abandoning them like sourfang did in his “heroic” abandonment of sylvanas and her orders
its just not that black and white