Yeah thats all ive been saying, But your initial post said that we are fine. This is me just reacting to that statement with actual data to show that we are not fine.
With the recent nerfs its worse because any fights with cleave are now faceroll so the dot from venthyr really has no time to ramp. Give it to the end of this week and youll see just how bad havoc is in terms of its throughput
Ive provided you data many times, you just refuse to look at it and have no idea how to read it. Want me to find those posts for you too?
You are something else, truly.
Sounds good. Interested to see where the data leads.
Every time the raid has been nerfed recently havoc falls. Check wowheads weekly dps rankings if you want to see it.
This is also in part to the 4pc not giving havoc anything. Even at the start of the tier we didnt get another meta, so the 4pc is useless giving us zero throughput increase
After the last nerfs https://www.wowhead.com/news/shadowlands-dps-rankings-in-season-3-week-16-third-week-of-patch-9-2-5-327454?webhook
I mean an argument can be made for Chaos Strike, but they took that particular cleave away when BfA started
You may be right, Beamzy, but your all caps yelling is not. Yes, give us something more than just one low-ranking DPS build, please. -S
when the community has been adamant on fixes for havoc since SL Prepatch in BFA, i think that itâs warranted to use caps.
Blizz has ignored havoc for far to long. The DH community has been extremely vocal since SL started, only to continuously be told âwere fineâ and at this point itâs just frustrating to have every other class recieve love except us. Every class that didnât like there 4pc or it was op was adjustedâŚHavoc literally has and always has had the single most useless 4pc since the tier was released and nothing has been done about it. our 4pc doesnât even give us another meta in raid encounters and they think this is good design? itâs literally useless. 30 seconds off a 4minute cd is garbage.
baseline abilities havenât been tuned properly almost at all for the entirety of shadowlands, and the real problems with havoc still have yet to be addressed by blizzard.
So yes, i think caps is entirely warranted.
Itâs cool, I think everything you say is right. I just donât believe that loud generalities help Blizzard make decisions. Iâm not sure what the magical formula is, but from RL business experience, specific concerns with specific suggestions are most effective.
I think it is also worth mentioning they took away Blade Danceâs 1 sec dodge with no explanation and nerfed the distance on Infernal Strike by 5 yd with no explanation in the SL prepatch. Now, who can guess what will cost us a talent point to get back? 
Yeah, I feel you. Lots wrong with it. Maybe I will make a list. GLHF to all us for now. -S
I get that. But ive been civil, ive tried and tried. Ive even gotten data for them to look at. Nothing seems to get through. So this is me fed up.
Appreciate it though, and i do understand your sentiment. But enoughs enough
THIS! I read this thread and I donât do keys, but I LOVE Veng DH to play in random or rated BGs. We need defensive options buffed. Iâve ran all the legendary builds with Kyrian unity + other leggos and also the darkglare legendary + unity. It still isnât enough for survivabiltyâŚMy veng DH is fully duelist geared and I also have prot pally fully duelist geared. However, when I compare Veng DH to prot pallies or druid tanks, our defenses are REALLY WEAK. Any 2-3 decently geared players can kill a veng dh very fast whereas prot pallies, druid tanks, and even blood dks have WAY more survivability and can outlast the damage of 2-3 players due to bubbles/death strike/iron barkskin/plate armor/etc. Please buff our defensive options or buffs - I donât mind getting our mobility reduced as sacrifice for a defensive buff or even our overall HP. I find Veng DH to be more fun, but as a tank we are still very squishy. On the havoc side in terms of pvp, itâs easy to get to 2k rating as long as you have a good healer.
This thread isnt about vengeance
You said vengeance is in a fine spotâŚitâs not. It actually needs tuning. I believe havoc is fine in terms of damage in pvp - they can actually do big damage in pvp. All havoc needs is maybe a slight defensive buff in pvp, however doing keys with havoc, I canât really say, but if you can
do big damage in pvp I donât see how it canât do decent damage in mythic+.
Pvp is irrelevant my guy.
It was a reference to the tuning. Not talking about vengeance.
Not a pvp thread either.
Please find pvp threads to talk about pvo or make your own. At no point was pvp mentioned and youd know this if uou read it.
I dont understand why people that pvp automatically assume people are talking about pvp with zero mention of it. If hou want to talk about pvp, find a pvp thread
just shy of 3k rating and canât get an invite to 21s because aoe damage is 30% lower on every pull that I donât have meta, in which case its tied with everything but hunter and lock that still pull out 15% aheadâŚBISâd out every slot but xymox trinket but got phail and ooz, so if i got mythic xymox trinket it would only be 25% on every pullâŚcan we get some love blizzard please.
as a side note we had a shammy go ele and it did more dps than me in gambit most aoe pulls while still healing the group and keeping it up fine til the very last room. the 5 target âsoftâ caps on our abilitys need to be lifted.
Ww monk is better than sv right now.
Also youâre numbers arent even close for percentages. Aoe pulls no matter what those 3 classes will double your damage easily. 15% is far from correct.
End of dungeon youd expect a good sv or ww to do roughly 24k in a high fort lets say 24+. And a lock to do 28k+. Ive finished halls where rhe lock was at 39k end of dungeon.
I dont think your maths are correct.
Also our aoe is poor compardes to almost every other class because we rely so heavily on this dot. Feral druid beats havoc right now, thats saying something. A cleave spec, designed around aoe abilities being beaten by almost everry single other class in cleave/aoe because blizzard refuses to acknowledge havocs problems.
When was this about our state in PvP?
no one is talking about pvp here
my numbers are off because im like m+ and mythic bisâd out, and every 3 minutes we get to nearly match them in damage with aoe dots lifted up at least on high keys (we are talking 21 and likely fortified at this point not even 20, the lower it is the less chance we have to do anything) where they live long enough to tick for 7-14 seconds, yeah the other pulls its almost double, thereâs some recharging between pulls thatâs why i said lock and hunter is 15% of everyone else, and everyone else 15% over us so we are roughly 30% behind which is staggering to have gone unnoticed this long.
someone said our 4pc could apply the dot on the first tick then build it from there. this would be a good bandaid. if venth would fall too far behind if over covs got it could just change the color of the 45sec cd for them or maybe a 20% arua buff to their version of the dot, fae with venth aoe dots built in might be useable =]