Sorry, without inflection of speech that did not come across as agreement with you.
The primary argument given by the Demon Hunter community as to why the Havoc spec needs Immediate Dire Attention is that it is currently not the best in AE, and previously was the best.
By no accounts, is Havoc the worst.
That means it is within reason to conclude that the spec is fair or balanced even if some or all players do not enjoy it. So, why I said in response to your post that for people with privilege, fair and balanced is oppression.
Havoc hasnât been the best at aoe in a very long time, if it even was tbh. Also itâs not just ânot the best at aoeâ, itâs one of the worst specs in the game at it. Yeah, iâd say it needs some immediate attention because of that but itâs also one of the most unfun specs to play in its current form according to most people that play it. Honestly, I think only a clown could look at havoc currently and call it a balanced or fair spec to play.
Iâm sure many would disagree with me, but I am a big fan of Night Fae for dungeons. Give that a go if you havenât, imo. A boost to leech and more constant AoE/burst. Felblade/demon blades build though.
Depends on the groups and the size of the pulls. In a standard run, yeah you shouldnât lose to a tank on overall. But in the mdi it wasnât uncommon to see the dhs at same or less overall damage than the blood dks. Still, while you might not lose to a tank on overall, donât be surprised if you see a dh closer to the tank than to the higher dps classes on the meters.
Except DHs do cleave because it is baked into the rotation itself.
I do agree that Venthyr game play is degenerative and all other covenants need to be brought up to par. When running sims on my DH the other covenants are around 7-10% less dps. Feels the same in real world play too. Also, when adds die fast in M+ it creates a problem for venthyr because it wastes the dot. I try to use it when I know other peoples CDs are down. Still annoying though.
I think DH have the same overall AoE throughput as other classes but lack that huge burst lets say a FDK can do with Frostwyrm+BoS+Limb. DHs might see that huge burst and think they have no AoE but that is because they have consistent mini bursts as opposed to 2min windows.
Used heroic logs because there was a bigger sample size.
Overall DH seems to be in a decent spot especially if they buff the other covenants.
Heroic at this point in the tier is mowed down, youâre linking irrelvant data. No class is showcased properly here because any cleave is deleted before anyone can even get a full aoe rotation out. PleaseâŚ
Take a look throguh my activity. Ive posted relevant data for you to look at, including my own high key logs from multiple levels of 26 down to 22, and mythic examples from raid cleave and ST
Nobody said they wanted to be the best at AoE. Please show me where this was said.
Pretty close to it.
Nope, wrong again. Can you say anything of value ever?
Nobody once said dh needed to be the best. everyone has simply pointed out thr obvious problems with DH and the reliance on a covenant dot to do any damage because our actual toolkit itself does no damage.
Like what part of any of that do you not understand? You read things and then put words in everyones mouths. You then proceed to word vomit the worst ideas ive ever even seen for dh. You clearly dont understand the inner workings of dh and continue still to just make yourself look increasingly un-knowledgable and oblivious.
I mean its the most recent patch (boss nerfs/class tuning etc.) so it is the only relevant data that matters and Heroic has a bigger sample size. I guess we will have to wait till there more mythic raid data to get a clearer picture at the level.
Hard pass on combing through your post history my friend. No hard feels just not going to do it lol. If you have the time to link the data you are referencing Iâm all ears and happy to hear you out.
What? Mythic raid data has been going on for the entire patch? Also havoc hasnt seen ANY TUNING for the whole patch, yes the whole patchâŚso it is fully relevent data
Well, at least theyâre offering some data to backup their complaints now. Three weeks ago all theyâd come back with is that âeveryone agrees with me! itâs common sense! everyone knows it!â
Now we just need to have our friend evolve from an anecdotal evidence form to statistic driven scientific form.
The raid has seen tuning, and balance is relative to other classes which have seen tuning. So it is not relevant. Not sure what is missing from that. It is what it is NOW.
I am also not sure what I said that differs from your view points other than I think the AoE issue is not as bad as most think. Unless you show me otherwise. Which I am happy to entertain. Does not mean there is no room for mechanical improvements to AoE and buffs to be had in specific situations (which could come from covenant/leggo buffs).
We are a cleave class, every ability we have cleaves, but none of them deal damage. Thats the problem.
Havoc relies on a dot, showcased in those lovs i just linked you. Our baseline toolkit is the issue, it has recieved zero tuning. Ive been over this countless times with countless people.
Our 4pc does nothing, literally nothing for the class. Yet every other class at least has an interaction with there class, ours doesnt.
Havoc needs tuning to our baseline kit so that we can actually deal damage outside of a 3.5 minute cd that spreads a covenant dot. Even inside that window of spreading the dot, its bursted through by every other classmin the game before havoc can deal damage. The only time there is an exception to this rule is if the cache trinket (axe) lines up with the start of a pull in aoe.
We rely so heavily on an RNG trinket and a covenant dot that the spec without those two things will literally do season 1 damage because we havent recieved any tuning.
The hunt doesnt scale, so it does jo damage. The only reaaon NF is kind of okay for lower keys is the crit from korayn thay gives us minor burst. In higher keys its useless because pulls last longer, and in raid its useless because the crit buff is literally 4 seconds after you touch a mob.
Kyrian is a straight up meme, ive tried mastery focused builds with it and its worse than tank damage no matter how i played it.
Ill prove that seaspn 1 damage to you aswell. Lets go do a key and i wont use sinful brand or the trinket. Ive already done this but ill do it again to prove a point.
More data, this is actual raid data. Please read the post for context though. As ive said dont want to be OP, this is daya to showcase the issues with havoc. I just want blizzard to fix my spec
Most if not all classes have to deal with borrowed power rather than relying on their baseline toolkit so the point you are making about doing a dungeon with out brand does not hold water.
Iâm confused on why you think I donât understand lol. Iâve said multiple times sinful brand is dumb and degenerative. Yes, it is way too much of DH damage profile. Think we are talking in circles at this point.