I never once mentioned those expansions.
Oh yeah. The “Forsaken” traitors who were betraying the Horde even before BFA. Killing Saurfangs son and numerous Horde soldiers.
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There were orcs attacking Alliance in Icecrown too but that is just so mundane and expected that you get a mulligan.
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Mop:alliance had to see how voljin moved the story in a robot cat.helping the horde take back their city and asking nothing in return.
and of course we lost theramore.
we gained dalaran, i guess!(not really, that is gone already)
-Wod:we had to see how thrall randomly came out of nowhere and stealed our kill in a cinematic.
this was the same dude that killed deathwing with a kamehameha, was presenting the 4.2 patch, we had to see his freacking wedding
and then we had to rescue him from his “doubts and fears” after his aspect of hate just tell us how much he wants to burn stormwind.
that’s the equivalent to forcing horde players see the wedding of anduin or jaina or save them from themselves somehow.
Yep totally neutral.
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Are you complaining that the Horde had to spend story time with Garrosh? Because trust me, it wasn’t a joyride for us, either. Cata had five new zones, right? Mount Hyjal was pretty heavy on Alliance themes. Which of the other four were weighted towards the Horde? Perhaps Twilight Highlands, where the Alliance got the Wildhammer Dwarves and the Horde got the Dragonmaw orcs… oh wait, the Dragonmaw aren’t part of the Horde anymore, are they? Horde bias! Maybe it’s the zone that’s underwater and we fight against the naga, ancient enemies of the night elves. Oh, I know! It’s the desert where we hang out with the famed Horde heroes Magni Bronzebeard and Harrison Jones.
In all seriousness, Deepholme is the closest you can claim, and it’s barely leaning towards the Horde, not at all comparable to Hyjal. Whoopee, our new Warchief got some screentime so he can establish himself as the next expansion’s villain. Horde bias!
The Alliance were spectators in Wrath of the Lich King? The expansion where the quest hub was Dalaran, and the main organization contesting the Scourge was the Argent Crusade? It was a paladin’s wet dream. But it’s good to know that you agree that Thrall being Cata’s poster boy doesn’t make it a Horde expansion.
Guess what else we did in Draenor? We learned about the Draenei! You know, the people who also live on that planet too and even took it’s name for themselves? Remember them?
And how other Horde players and I feel about the content we get is absolutely relevant in a conversation about bias. You are complaining that I got more ice cream than you when it’s a flavor I don’t even like. A situation that no one is happy about is not biased.
Edit: Also we got Gnome, Dwarf, and Human origins in Wrath, which only furthers the case the Wrath was an Alliance expansion.
I plainly stated MoP was indeed Horde focused. We already covered Cata. But no expansion has ever in the history of the game been more lopsided than Legion. Even if I was picking and choosing where to draw the line on what expansions were biased to one side or the other, I have a lot of leeway on where I would choose to draw it because Legion was so far beyond any other expansion.
We weren’t evil in Cataclysm. We were opposed to the Alliance. In your black and white world, that means we are evil. But the situation was more nuanced than that. At the time we were actually playing in Cata, the Alliance opened hostilities first and the Horde was responding. That was retconned. But guess who benefits from the retcon? It’s the Alliance. You can’t claim the story is biased by the Horde when it is being retconned to make your side look better and better and my side look worse and worse.
If the game was Horde biased, we wouldn’t be dealing with Jaina’s flip floppy nature. Obviously bombing Theramore was too far and I don’t condone what Garrosh did, but she was the one that made Theramore a threat to the Horde by allowing the Alliance to use it as an entry point into Kalimdor. Her troops attacked the Tauren. She made herself the enemy. Had she remained peaceful her city probably would still be here.
You want to talk about the Horde never facing the consequences of their actions? We’ve been beaten to death by the story telling us how bad we are for bombing Theramore, but let’s look at Jaina. She gets off easy every single time, no matter what she does. Attacking Taurajo? “Legitimate target.” The purge of Dalaran? Swept under the rug until very recently when a villainous blood elf was trying to punish Baine, Thrall, and Saurfang along with her, hardly making her confront the atrocity she commited. The only thing Jaina was made to feel any shame about was not joining her father in his genocidal attack against the Horde. I’m supposed to be like “Yeah Jaina. Poor you. You should have slaughtered my people in a time when we had peaceful relations because your dad said so. But you didn’t. SHAME!”
Maybe blood elf posters talk about the Purge too much, but it’s only because Blizzard doesn’t talk about it enough while Horde players are never allowed to forget the bad stuff we did. Horde bias!
I agree. The story sucks. But it sucks for both sides. I didn’t play through the War of Thorns content at all because I hate it so much. When I did the FORCED defense of Lordearon, I didn’t do a single point of damage to any Alliance mob and instead just healed my Horde. I was rewarded with watching Sylvanas gas my own people.
If you would just listen to what the Horde players have been trying to tell you, you’d know that we hate the story too. We probably hate it more than you. If this is what bias looks like, we don’t want it.
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The alliance opening hostilities? not sure about that, to me it was ALWAYS clear that the horde started it first by attacking ashenvale.
so chronicles only clarified something that was ambigous on purpose.
This is actually a fair point.
i higly doubt it, garrosh (the horde) wanted the whole kalimdor and then the world, i think that she made the right choice by helping her nelfs allies.
She payed the consequences, why the horde can’t? why she didn’t destroyed orgrimmar in response?
i do agree that cata wasn’t entirely black and white, but the horde was made evil full time in mop.
by your own standard,if theramore was a “legit target” because she “made herself the enemy” then so did taurajo.
i think that is fair if the horde don’t face consequences for their atrocities then she can get a pass on this one.
just like sylvanas never responded to all what she did to the alliance,oh wait, why she always get off so easy even when she has been like 5x times worse?
Wrong, she has been confronted by her own mistakes during the 8.0 questline.
Wrong again, she herself says that “we all have blood on our hands”
She does feel shame for the things she has done as well.
Maybe is because the horde,at times has been turned into exacly what daelin say they would be. so maybe that could add some perspective to her i mean, have you seen things like brennand?.
That is normal considering that the horde IS the villain.
The alliance isn’t even trying to wipe them at this point ,they just wanted to leaved the hell alone.
It’s actually not. The same plot that makes them look worse and worse will also warp inward on itself to shield them from any but the most superficial of consequences. Eternally protecting the Horde, while denying the Alliance justice and/or vengeance for atrocities, heaped ontop of warcrimes, heaped ontop of genocide. Because it’s "metal’, or something. While also telling them they’re still heroes because that one Orc and that one Tauren got a little whiny. It’s the epitome of having their cake, and eating it too.
With ice cream.
And other assorted confections.
And free refills.
Have you tasted this cake? It is not the kinda cake that tastes good or ages well.
Having it while eating it can be good or bad, depending on the ingredients.
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I’m pretty sure the Alliance started it that time, but it coulda be a case of both sides getting different information. If it was ambiguous, it still doesn’t make the Horde villains in Cata. We were just opposed to the Alliance.
I think you and I have different definitions of “paying the consequences.” The Horde players do pay the consequences everytime the game tries to shame us for what happened to Theramore. We never wanted to destroy it, but Blizzard made us, and we are very bad for doing the thing we had no agency in. I think you have more of an “eye for an eye” definition, which doesn’t make sense to me because the Horde never had an equivalent city to Theramore to begin with. You started WoW with numerous advantages and you are mad that the playing field is being leveled, but you can’t punish the Horde for it without recreating the advantages the Alliance had. This isn’t Horde bias, it’s undoing Blizzard’s original Alliance bias.
I am speaking to the way the it is framed in the narrative. By Baine’s own admission, Taurajo was a legitimate target and Horde have no right to be upset about it’s destruction. Jaina has never admitted that Theramore was a legitimate target nor, as far as I know, ever been confronted with the idea that it might have been. The narrative bends over backwards to paint her rage as wholly justified but doesn’t give Horde players anything. It’s not Horde biased.
Again, we have different definitions. You think Sylvanas doing whatever she wants is Horde bias, even if it creates negative play experiences for Horde players. As a Horde player, I think Sylvanas completely ruined my faction and my love for the game. I have been unsubbed for the last 10 months because of her. This is not Horde bias, this is Sylvanas bias. Her ridiculous plot armor comes at the expense of the Horde. We don’t benefit from it and instead are suffering under her leadership. Not Horde bias.
The “mistake” she is being made to confront is not being as racist as her father was. She feels bad because she wishes she was more racist back then. She doesn’t feel regret for the atrocities she committed against the Horde, instead she feels regret that she didn’t commit those atrocities sooner. If the story was biased in favor of the Horde, a person harboring those types of feelings would not be framed by the narrative as a sympathetic figure, but Jaina is. We’re supposed to agree with her that she should have wiped the Horde out shen she had the chance. Not horde biased.
You’re right. At this point in the story both Jaina and Thrall are finally confronting their shortcomings. Finally. Both of them are to blame for a lot of what is wrong with Alliance and Horde relations right now. But it took us a long time to get here and if the story was truly biased in favor of the Horde, she would have been made to confront those mistakes the entire way here. I used to love both Jaina and Thrall, but they’ve both been poorly handled by the writers over the years. It actually breaks my heart to see what has become of them.
Actually, I haven’t seen Brennadam because I refuse to do the War Campaign. I hate it. I only played this expansion for the Zandalari content, and I haven’t even been able to unlock playable Zandalari because it requires me to do the War Campaign that I hate so much. If this was Horde bias I would be able to play the game without feeling like I have to completely compromise my characters’ integrities to do so.
Daelin Proudmoore was wrong back then. He was a villain. You can’t punish people for crimes they might commit, and the fact that the narrative is even suggesting “Maybe Daelin was right all along” is the opposite of Horde bias.
Despite the wishes of the Horde players, we are the villains. Explain to me how giving the Horde players the exact opposite of what we want is Horde bias?
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Neither do I. That’s the entire point. One side is forced to play the villains against their will while simultaneously being accused of being Blizzard’s pet.
Also I find it amusing that you, someone who regularly advocates for the wholesale destruction of the Horde and it’s peoples, claim you don’t like playing the mass murdering faction. How many people are using your account?
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I’ll get back to your larger response later but other posters gave pretty much the answers I may have.
But I will answer this.
The Horde is no better than the Legion to me. Mass murdering them is the ethical thing to do. Do you have any moral dilemmas killing demons? No?
I’m findin’ a great deal of joy knowin’ that my character’s mere existence seems to make y’all blue team so butthurt.
Half tempted to re-install the game just to continue that ichy feelin’ y’all get for knowin’ I exist.
On topic: of course Sylvanas isn’t dyin’ this expansion. That’s been blatantly obvious since day one of BFA with how much the Devs like her.
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It’s just kind of sad that the story forum has been reduced to this. Once I would have taken up the torch and argued, but now? There’s no one left to listen.
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I have no qualms with killing members of the Burning Legion, but if there were any dissenters within the Legion who, were trying to return to their true selves before they were turned into demons, I would certainly lend them an ear.
It’s not a fair comparison because free agency doesn’t exist in the Burning Legion. Their personalities were warped when they became demons. A more equitable comparison would be something like wanting to annihilate everyone from North Korea because you hate their government, ignoring the possibility that there might be people in North Korea who also hate their government.
Which dissenters? The ones in Orgrimmar after MoP… gee can you catch me up what happened since then?
Those of us who have naught to get by on except Blanduin’s communion wafers would be glad for a change of pace.
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That… is a good point.
You are being willfully ignorant of the Horde’s story. You can’t be this active on the forums and be oblivious to the fact that we are preparing for our second civil war which has our Warchief vs. literally every other racial leader.
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No I know perfectly well what is happening.
And I have brought it up multiple times.
The problem is you got two camps of Horde players.
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Who think because the Horde is sad or Baine fights for Forsaken free will some how makes them good.
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The others who want any weakness or moral reflection removed because it is too close to Alliance ideals.
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Who is John Hight and what is Chinajoy?