The Darkspear Rebellion/Siege of Orgrimmar all happened over the course of months, yes, but you weren’t stuck doing fetch quests for Vol’jin the whole time.
Thrall right out the portal and Doomhammer if we’re still playing by the asinine rule that the Army of Light containing former Alliance characters makes it an Alliance organization.
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You don’t have to talk to Thrall in the opening scenario. As Alliance, you only have to talk to Maraad and Khadgar. And you only have to talk to Doomhamer in order to kill him.
The Army of the Light doesn’t just have a former Alliance character, it has a couple of very important Alliance character (who never formally left the Alliance) as its faction leaders, and works very closely with another faction leader (Velen) because it’s composed entirely of his race. You then procede to travel about with them, run quests for them, and grind reputation with them for rewards.
And that’s after your Horde character spent time in their Alliance race themed order halls, working to become head of some mostly Night Elf/Draenei/Humans organization.
Having to talk to Thrall and Doomhamer during the opening scenario of WoD is not very comparable.
I would agree with that if he was doing it for Jaina’s or Alliance’s sake.
He wasn’t.
He objected to the practice of mind control. Jaina or Alliance were never once mentioned by him or any other.
Again I am really, really unsure about the Tauren. But Hamuul and the rest are doing what is mutually beneficial. Remember the lesser evil point I raised?
If Hamuul helped with no discernible benefit to himself or his faction then I would agree.
Same as above really.
They were fighting against the lichking that threatened both of them.
And don’t even get me started on Thrall. Zero respect for that guy.
Didn’t he march alongside Garrosh to attack Theramore?
This I agree with.
Unfortunately everything you mentioned benefited both the Horde and Alliance.
You have not raised any examples that showed the Horde taking a selfless action.
Everything they have done was for their own benefit.
We could have had different ways of balancing.
We didn’t need Horde blighting, blowing up, burning and in case of Night Elves deforesting to be ‘equal’.
If equal means destroy Alliance areas literally so you could find more enjoyment kind of fits into this whole favouritism narrative.
First kill off Mekkatorque, one of your people need to do it. Since Cairne was killed off.
Then we can have Tyrande go all psycho and we can attempt to kill her…(more on this later)
But Malfurion needs to run off, become some Druid God Jesus person, loose his faith and powers, then sulk off to another planet to live before one of your own goes off to find him and bring him back because Tyrande is doing “evil” stuff.
Varian and Vol’jin was a fair trade.
Then we top it off with the invasion of Stormwind in an attempt to kill Tyrande. But she gets away because some Alliance leader says you can’t do that she wasn’t only crazy with you knuckleheads, so she shoudl go on trial.
Then she gets away and we have to track her down in some wierd alternat universe, where Malfurion cheats and kills her off.
But oh no, you lost one city, cannot get soem crazy vengeance and the world is just unfair and you feel cheated.
I see you’ve chosen the spin and dismiss approach. Your standards for what qualifies as a positive action is so impossible to reach, even the Alliance fails to meet it. You don’t think Velen benefited from restoring the Sunwell which effectively bolstered the forces of the Light?
Varian walking away from SoO.
Jaina freezing everyone in Undercity so Varian can’t kill Thrall and end the Horde.
Tyrande giving away Azshara despite everything the Horde did so they have lumber or something.
I could go on…
When I talk about Horde bias I mean the bias Blizzard has toward their idea of the Horde races that clashes with what the Horde is supposed to be in the eyes of the playerbase and the meta-narrative. In fact, I would call it less a bias and more the writers getting super into a concept they like, usually one with a lot of edgy and mOraLlY GrEy themes, before they realize that the only logical outcome would be one side getting wiped out, so they’re forced to backtrack, which leads to the claims of bias.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it until it sinks in, The writers are in their own bubble and their idea of what makes for a compelling race is different than ours. They’ve been caught up, gradually, in the Game of Thrones style of fantasy writing. The writers all play Horde, but they don’t have a passion for what prior themes of the Horde races are. The more edgy and metal type races or characters, Hordeside, always win out over the ones who aren’t. The characters who are practically monsters are hyped up, because those are the themes the writers like. You have Golden focusing on her own favorite characters, while having a markedly different thematic focus from the rest, and the other writers go nuts writing their badass take no prisoners pretty much evil characters.
There is and has been a bias, but it’s towards the writer’s idea of Horde races, not the Horde races themselves. That’s why even when they lose, they win, and why in the narrative their actions are framed as being equitable to those of the Alliance, even when objectively they’re not.
When was that? I saw Baine seeing him raised, tortured and Sylvanas confrontation. In none of them did he mention anything about Alliance or Jaina.
Meanwhile all Andiun can talk about is how unwilling he is to kill Horde and how to save them from Sylvanas.
Instead Alliance players were stuck in the hot desert with sand everywhere murdering orcs for a guy who clearly hated them.
You still work with Thrall in the opening. If I recall right, it’s been years so I may be misremembering, he also bails you out of getting dumpstered on by Garrosh later in Nagrand regardless of faction. And you don’t kill Doomhammer, you fight alongside him later at Talador and he dies fighting Blackhand IIRC. I get them mixed up a lot too.
Leaders who were so far removed from the current Alliance one of them welcomes you with open arms upon seeing you, regardless of your race and faction. They are only retroactively members of the Alliance that was formed after WC3.
Off the top of my head, the Paladin and Priest order halls are highly dominated by standard generic Stormwind human themes with every other race serving as props. Similarly the Mage and Druid halls are heavily influenced by Dalaran and the Night Elves. These four have their roots thoroughly planted in Alliance cultures or former organizations. Every other order hall is either new or has more neutral beginnings. Regardless, they weren’t a part of the factions at the time, even if you did work with people who were, such as Liadrin and Shaw.
Overall, the argument that any one expansion in a post-Cataclysm world is wholly dominated by one faction is pointless when it’s broken down bit-by-bit. Instead of pointing at the other faction and claiming fault for biases or too much exposure, the writers are where the blame should rest, and people who remain exclusive to a single faction should educate themselves of what the other faction’s grievances with the story are.
Sorry that is just too vague.
Would it have hurt Baine to even reference what they did at Teldrassil?
Its like none of them care at all. I am sorry but this is just grasping.
Even Saurfang by all accounts doesn’t care what happened. Only about the fairness of the kill. But then again thats demented Horde logic for you.
He was giddy when assassins were killing civilians in Astranaar so I guess to him that’s alright.
Yup i did and this is what you are saying: By that I mean that after atrocity, after atrocity, after atrocity, the Horde’s continued existence is nothing but bias.
I’ve been following the forum since a while and most the of the there is a arguing like that, the outcome end up like this:
Alliance player claim horde bias and keep saying that the horde experience is better.
Horde player said that it wasn’t and that both side experience was bad.
Alliance player keep saying that it wasn’t true and that the horde experience is still better.
At the end the horde player do listen to the alliance player but say that it was as bad for them. Alliance player dont listen to horde player and keep saying horde good the horde have it…
This is also what is happening here to. If you are still aren’t aware of that than there is no debate about who dont listen to the other.
One word, Undercity. Both side lost a city. If you still think that this is horde bias you just prove my point. Balance is horde bias to you.
Varian not committing genocide is not a positive action, it’s merely not performing a negative one.
Jaina was working with Thrall for peace. Back then she was protecting one of her closest friends, hardly counts as an action in which she did not benefit from.
I didn’t realize Azshara was a gift. I thought she simply couldn’t contest it any longer.
Speaking of Tyrande, remember when she wanted to liberate Suramar from the Legion because it was the city of her birth and weakening the Legion’s hold was a tactical advantage, not because she actually cared about the Nightborne. She resented their past mistakes and wanted to use their troops as fodder. Remember who else was there. Liadrin. The person who didn’t treat the Nightborne as a means to an end. The person who saw them as more than meatshields in the fight against the Legion. She risked weakening her own troops because she sympathized with them, even when there was no guarantee they wouldn’t join the Alliance (which was their first choice, by the way, before they realized they were unwelcome).
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Liadrin was completely selfless, because she obviously maintained diplomatic relations with the Nightborne in hopes of convincing them to join the Horde, but her deeds were at least as selfless as anything any Alliance hero has done, and that’s the point I am making here. You are spinning the Horde’s action as selfish, but anyone can spin.
Since two years but anyway one week is enough to understand how alliance what alliance player said since they post a whining thread about bias a few time per day.
Its also spite me since i didn’t want it to be blight and i also didn’t had choice in the matter of destroying Therdrassil.
I just said fact. Both side lost a city. Prove me wrong.
so let me get this straight, you think that the horde faction doesn’t deserve to get punished for the atrocities they commited despite the fact they are doing it over and over again when we already dismantled entire organizations that did far more less?
At least in my case, i am not saying that the horde experience is better, i think that both sides got treated poorly by blizzard.
at least in the player department
however i still think that horde,as a story faction get treated “better” simply because they can apparently be both good and evil, commit atrocities and still not face any consequences for the crap they do.
Hell, look at this thread, blizzard isn’t going to kill sylvanas despite the genocide of a playable race, and i want to know, why we have to deal with this crap if blizzard isn’t going to let the alliance have their revenge?
Now you would want bring that some alliance characters have been beneffited from this “player plot armor” and i would agree with you.
but none and i mean NONE of the alliance characters have commited the level of atrocities that garrosh or sylvanas did to the other faction.
(garrosh torturing civillians for fun or sylvanas experimenting with citizens of southshore)
or teldrassil being done in the name of the “horde”.
the closest i can think of is dazarlazor with some dark iron burning civillians but nowhere as near as the scale of teldrassil.
So yeah. i think that faction wars are fricking dumb because of this and i can’t wait to end this one so we can never,ever again have to hear about it.
No but your faction did.
So its only for that my faction destroys one thing of yours for once.
I have a long list of places destroyed by the Horde and not a single place that I have destroyed of yours except maybe for Taurajo.
And Horde are genocidal monsters that will never change. Fact. Prove me wrong.
Sparing the Horde leadership directly responsible for what Garrosh did (IE Sylvanas) was frigging saint like.
How is Jaina being naive and aiding Thrall despite everything not a positive?
Nah it was a gift. It was specifically so the Horde won’t attack them again. We all saw how that good gesture blew in her face.
To be fair both sides were throwing Nightborne crackheads at the evil nightborne.
Tyrande had me save fleeing Suramar citizens. If she was so uncaring she would not have cared either way and would have never bothered to help them.
They sure can I have been trying to deal with this ‘honor horde’ crowd for a while now.
The dichotomy between Liadrin and Tyrande’s presence in Surumar was truly interesting to compare. Tyrande makes it explicitly clear that she is there first and foremost in service of fighting the Legion. She holds little but contempt for the NBs (understandable considering their past actions, but that is one hell of a long grudge to hold) … and even despises the concept of the BEs (mana-addicts) even being on the threshhold of the city of her birth.
In contrast … Liadrin’s actions may have a more political edge … but they still ring far truer in Altruism. Her reasons are more personal, understanding more than just about anyone what it feels like to not just go through EXTREME mana-withdrawel, but also be betrayed by a beloved leader to the Fel. On top of this (exhibited more in Rommath than Liadrin) the BEs are fascinated and awe struck by a living relic of the very civilization and people that they built their own nation to emulate.
Long story short … Liadrin may have had her own political motives propelling her actions; but there is no doubt which of the two Elven factions the Nightborne were more compatible with (and before people say it was JUST Tyrande … I’m sorry, she is both the chief political leader AND highest religious authority in the Kaldorei; to say that her opinions hold weight with them is an understatement). That doesn’t even get into the understandable contempt some NEs still hold for the Highborne (or their way of life); and the Nighborne ARE Highborne.
I find it interesting that one of the most common retorts some Alliance players make when discussing the Nightborne going Horde and Tyrande’s role in it is that she’s justified to mistrust them because of how the Highborne have acted in the past.
I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. Tyrande is justified in her feelings and concerns towards Thalyssra and the Nightborne and she’s entitled to harbor mistrust. The issue is that if she wants to harbor that mistrust, she is not entitled to the Nightborne’s loyalty. They are well within their rights to go elsewhere.