But, don’t you see?! A teenage troll sided eyed a human once and now everything is the hordes fault for all eternity and the alliance is NEVER at fault for anything they do.
(Just saving you the time and energy because it’s Zerde and he’s just going to blame the horde for every shady thing the alliance has ever done anyway)
Except at that point there was a truce, a truce the Horde broke. The Horde should be blame for starting another war.
You mean the trolls already attacking the dwarves?
Thus far the Alliance have fought defensive wars. That is either the Horde instigating things or forcing the Alliance to strike first because war truly was imminent. The Horde’s attack on Theramore was a war of conquest and not one to prevent war. That has always been the reason they are the villains of warcraft.
I mean it’s a joke because of how often you go out of your way to whitewash and or flat out ignore every single shady thing the alliance has ever done
Both sides are at fault, but you never seem to realize that.
at 2:17 you can see Jaina teleporting the Sunreavers and actually SAVING them for the Alliance place. This was a video from 11 YEARS AGO. So, yeah this was always the mechanic. Jaina is suppose to teleport the Sunreavers to the Violet Hold.
There was no truce from Cataclym to the end of the MoP.
They were not. They are expanding on someone else territories for hundreds of years.
But apparently Natives are never justified in defending their lands. While at the same times Some Alliance cries foul when someone else tries to do the same to them.
Either you support right of conquest or right of historical claim. You cannot have both.
If you support right of conquest - then don’t cry when Horde is exercising it.
If you support right of historical claim, then trolls are the ones who have legitimacy.
They claimed the land first, no? And every country is entilted to protect it’s borders from invaders, no?
Both these things can coexist at the same time though. The people born into areas after their ancestors conquered have the right to defend the only home they ever known/lived in.
I was later informed that several Horde ships arrived. They anchored just out of Alliance waters.-Jaina
When you learned this, did you attack-Tyrande
No-Jaina
Why not?- Tyrande
Because they were not in our waters. And I did not want to be the one to provoke a war.-Jaina
Again, we don’t know who started what during the the war between the ice trolls and dwarves. If anything it might have been a case of what happened with the humans, with trolls attacking the dwarves and ultimately the dwarves kicked them to the mountains because they had enough of the assaults.
I think whoever starts conflicts, for whatever reason are the villains. And thus far the Alliance, as fairly mature nations don’t recall care about expanding their borders and have only cared about keeping what they already had. But the Horde keeps pushing and pushing for more of their lands.
We are not 1 month and a half from Chronicles. I am now more curious then ever to find out what will or will not be included in that telling of the event.
Ignoring how the alliance keeps routinely expanding into horde sovereign territory you mean
Then Jaina is a moron or a liar. Because War was ongoing since start of Cataclysm and She greenlit the invasion.
Dwarves, becuase they were tresspassers.
Attacking invaders on your own land is act of self-defence.
So high elves.
Which is not true. And once again look at Dwarves, look at humans, and elves. They were expanding for a long time. How would you explain Empire of Arathor and creation of 7 human kingdoms if they didn’t go on the path of conquest.
Alliance struck first in the Barrens in Cata (basically that seems like both sides attacked at the same time in different regions)
Does not show a treaty.
Dwarves.
Actually as per Chronicles it was Garrosh and the Horde who struck first.
Warchief! The lady Jaina is too powerful! She has been passive and quite. Rouse her, and we will have war on our hands-a war we are not prepared to fight!=Sylvanas
When Sylvanas is the voice of reason you know you have goofed up.
If we are talking about Dun Morough It has been their territory for hundreds of years. If you are talking about Barrens(particularly Bael Modan), after Warcraft 3 the Barrens became the wild west of WoW and everyone claimed territory left and right. Including the Horde from Quilboars and harpies.
Even Sylvanas herself said they were not at war.
Again, only shows a lack of hostilities at the time, not the presence of a treaty causing it
Yes, yes, the Tauren lands are free for all. And, they enchroached on Mulgore as well. They’re greedy little buggers.
I love the standards: Orcs and humans wander into apparently empty forest to get some lumber, that’s treated as a knowing invasion and desecration of sacred lands. Dwarves steal sacred land to desecrate them and kill off the tribe that lives there, well that was no one’s land.
No! Jaina said firmly. “They are not in Alliance waters. I will defend Theramore, but I cannot condone being the aggresors. We’ll just have to wait.”
Clearly there there are rules/treaty and mind you this was already after Northwatch was destroyed. So no, Jaina had some sort of truce with the Horde that prevent her from attack warships parked just outside her territorial waters.
And they kicked out the centaurs to get Mulgore. As violent as the centaurs are, getting a homeland for the taurens was not one without violence.
Now, the dwarves going out an excavating in Mulgore is certain not anything the Alliance should condone, but then the Horde was also sending forces at the time to their own territories like Ashenvale/Darkshore.
Have a page? Because other than a mention of Garrosh sending troops to Ashenvale to keep gathering resources prior to that, there’s nothing about the fighting that took place around the shattering, just talk about the mobilization of the TH.
No there aren’t. There’s people who know there’s a delicate balance between the factions (kinda cold war-ish) and know that if you throw a punch at the other side that will start up WAY more than just a simple fight.
Whatabout the…
The Horde’s new incursions into Ashenvale enraged the Alliance/ Tensions between the factions flared, and open war seemed inevitable.
Some of the Horde’s members welcomed these bold and aggressive maneuvers, but Cairne Blooshoof did not. The Elder tauren did everything he could to reason with the acting warchief and prevent bloodshed.
So there, even before Deathwing burst out the Horde was already sending new troops and creating new incursions into Ashenvale long before the world shattered. In fact, they seemed to have outright retconned the Twilight’s Hammer plotline altogether.
And the lore had it that Jaina only started her more aggressive stances a day or two before Deathwing destroyed the world.
Even under that assumption it was the Horde who threw the punch to start an actual world war.
So not Garrosh actually attacking first. So the Cata quests where horde questgivers talk about how the Alliance took them by surprise still hold.
Both factions attacking each other simultaneously in different regions.
Even under this assumption the Alliance only attacked because Garrosh was already attacking/moving forces to start his war. If anything that is causus belli for war.
Is apperently retconned. That Garrosh was already attacking Ashenvale long before Deathwing broke the world. At worse, it could simply be they did not know Garrosh had already attacked Ashenvale and thought the entire thing was a suprise attack because they didn’t know conflict had already errupted.
Harvesting resources.
Which yes, is an act of aggresion against the night elves, but more in the level of pushing the limits/possibly trying to get them to attack that operation.
Not too much different in aggression than the Dwarven incursions on Tauren land, or less as he didn’t kill off an entire sub group of elves while doing that.
According to your twisting of Chronicles to say what you want it to say.
If China were to go to Alaska and “harvest” US oil that would be cause for war.
This is Chronicles as it is written. Garrosh(and by extension the Horde) are portrayed as the aggressors. THis isn’t some false reading of it. If anything, it feels like outright retcon of why Cairne even challenged Garrosh by removing the Twilight Hammer plotline and simply challenging Garrosh because he wanted to conquer Ashenvale.
You mention them as they’re an actual great example of it as they keep encroaching on the territory of other nations (territorial waters of the Philippines by their fishing fleet comes to mind) daring anyone to do anything as they push their territory farther and farther.
your headcanon that is not backed up by the text.