Fricking finally. So, the supposed “bug” has been fixed and Jaina does not actually kill Sunreaver civilians. She does teleport them. and even those she “crosses” and aggros does not get killed. She damages them with a spell but ultimately, they end up teleported.
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She’s still responsible for any that die via the Silver Covenant due to her directly giving them orders to act.
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Sounds fair as long as the Horde leaders, all of them, are held directly responsible for the acts of all their underlings that have caused death to Alliance members.
And maybe more importantly, Aethas also gets blamed for the actions of the Sunreavers who acted even without his direct order/control. Like the one who, oh I don’t know, stole a weapon of mass destruction and gave it to Garrosh?
Because Jaina order them to arrest civilians. Only those who resisted were killed. So those who did take it to the extreme(ie the SC guy who fed someone to a shark) are quite literally not following her orders.
Regardless, this is still one less thing you can blame on Jaina and puts a nail on the coffin of anyone who considers Jaina a murderer who directly killed civilians.
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Are we really making ANOTHER thread about this?
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Are you saying this is a recent fix?
I know the stories about it being bugged out and Blizzard leaving it in, either because it looked cool or laziness.
It seems pretty odd that they would fix that so long after MoP was over. Almost like a Jedi Mind Trick of a retcon.
“You never saw Jaina kill civilians… it never happened…”
I am used to Blizzard white washing the game with Alliance Bias. I just wonder when this fix occured. If it is recent, that is pretty odd.
I mean, her multiple failed attempts at wiping out Orgrimmar are proof that the only difference between Jaina and Sylvanas is that Jaina really tried to destroy Org and she was thwarted. Sylvanas was successful. An attempted mass murderer who was foiled is still wicked, just bad at it.
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Interesting that they fix this so long after the fact.
Either this is just them revisiting old content to try and fix anything that might help work towards the peace narrative, or perhaps they have something coming up that’ll address the Purge again.
I kind of hope for the second option. Peace without resolution to so many past issues feels fake. A true peace narrative needs to go through past tragedies and atrocities and find resolution, and Aethas trying to get Jaina a music box doesn’t quite cut it.
I’d be game for some Bronze Dragon shenanigans letting us relive certain events, and involved characters being able to see things they didn’t know prior. So, yeah. Let Lor’themar see for himself Jaina didn’t kill anyone. While you’re at it, let him see that the Sunreavers actually did betray Dalaran, and that Aethas kept silent about it for the safety of Quel’Thalas. Let Jaina see that part too, for that matter. I think it’d be good for her to have a grasp of the factors that led Aethas to plead ignorance, and help her accept his actions and forgive him.
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Honestly, I think it was fixed a long time ago, maybe even during MoP itself, but because none of us redid the questline, people just assumed it was still bug. I actually have a hazy memory of this being the case, hence why I never subscribed to Jaina just slaughtering civilians.
I wouldn’t have redone if it wasn’t for the fact my dk was apparently exalted already and I didnt need to grind rep.
The difference between her and Sylvanas, is she actually changed her mind. That when Thrall and Kalec tried to reason with her she actually listened. We know for a fact she could have drowned Ogrimmar if she wanted. It was her choice, and hers alone not to step off the ledge.
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No, Jaina sent two waves to destroy Org that Thrall was able to stop. She fully intended to destroy Org and everyone in it - twice.
She did send two attacks to Orgrimmar that would have wiped it out, had Thrall not thwarted her. She twice attempted and was foiled.
It was the third time, where she finally changed her mind. But she did try twice.
Sylvanas was just better at destroying an enemy city and did it with her first command. Jaina failed twice and then changed her mind - but she still unleashed two attacks fully intending to destroy Org and everyone in it.
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While still under the effects of the magical fallout from what remained of Theramore, mind you. Girl was not exactly in her right mind, and that’s not even taking into account the emotional trauma.
Jaina’s got mitigating factors for her actions.
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And if she did not chance her mind Ogrimmar would have been destroyed. We see in Warcrimes a timeline where Jaina did succeed in destroying Ogrimmar. Can you honestly expect me to believe that Sylvanas would have ever changed her mind?
Ultimately, though she didn’t go though with a genocide, Sylvanas did. and that alone should make them different enough.
You make it sound like this was a bad thing? The fact is, Jaina luckily had someone capable enough to stop her from going over the edge. While everyone around Sylvanas just blindly followed her orders(ahem Nathanos ahem)
Ultimately she tried to commit genocide and was thwarted - twice. She did go through with it twice, she just failed. Then she changed her mind.
Sure, Sylvanas got her trial and judgement. I would love to see Jaina get hers. Among Jaina’s crimes would be 2 counts of attempted genocide.
People who attempt crimes and fail can still be brought to justice for the attempt. Or if they are Alliance, their crimes can be swept under the rug, while their Horde victims lavish them with gifts.
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Fellas?
If I shoot at a child with intent to kill, but miss, am I a bad person?
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Well, sounds like you might have bad aim…
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Considering the Horde just bombed her city, she probably was in her right to destroy Ogrimmar. Sylvanas had at best a “they might someday attack us” justification to what she did.
Sure we can have a trial against Jaina, if the entire Horde as well gets prosecuted for Theramore/Teldrassil. Fair is fair, and look you guys actually succeeded in your genocide. 3 times by my count.
If that child had a gun and shot several innocent people, you would probably be considered a hero if you didn’t miss. These strawman arguments are so fun.
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For actions done by the Horde, Garrosh and Sylvanas had trials. Like the verdicts or not, they had due process for their crimes.
Garrosh was given to Pandaren law, where he was busted out before the verdict. The verdict was ridiculous. Thankfully, his escape rendered the verdict moot, and he is executed in another jurisdiction (AU Nagrand)
Sylvanas goes before the Arbiter and submits to Tyrande’s judgement, and none present objects.
We have yet to see any Alliance figure come close to such a trial for their crimes. Jaina would be a good start. But that is wishful thinking. Clearly the Alliance can do as it pleases, and the Horde will lavish them with gifts.
That aside, I do appreciate this :
I do wonder when it was changed. If it was recent, that would be curious. I thought maybe you saw some announcement, or that it happened recently. I guess as far as you know, it could have been in Cata, but no one really mentioned it.
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Didn’t know all those orphans in Orgrimmar were armed and dangerous.
Or the shopkeepers.
Or the farmers.
Or the civilians spending their day shopping for cactus apples.
Can’t believe every single one of them was packing heat.
Buuuut anyway, I’ve spent enough time arguing with you about Jaina and the Purge and yadda yadda yadda.
You’d be fine if Jaina marched into Orgrimmar’s orphanage and skinned each child alive to make a new purse.
She could personally drown every civilian, one by one, by pushing them into her water elemental.
She could steal Christmas, and you’d still find some way to remove culpability from her and slap it on someone else.
So there isn’t much more point to this discussion.
Though I have to say. With all the gymnastics you do to justify horrible things, you’d make one hell of a Sylvanas fan.
If you ever feel like changing sides one day, give me a call.
I don’t have a phone or anything.
Just scream into the void and I’ll get it.
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Except they were not the only one who committed said crimes.
The Alliance were not the ones starting faction wars. Or going around destroying cities and town just for kicks and giggles.
No, I never saw an announcement. The only reason I decided to check on this was because of that other thread. To be honest, I was always planning on doing it just to check but the questline is kinda long. On the plus side, I got to kill Garrosh.
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Nuclear weapons were used in japan against farmers/civilians/kids/etc. For the most part, people consider it a tragic but necessary action to end a war. And ultimately something we would blame on Japan for not capitulating.
I wasn’t particular fond of Jaina trying to drown Ogrimmar, but at the same time I don’t think she should be blamed/punished for what was clearly the Horde causing someone to lose their home/family/and sanity and deciding some good old fashion payback being in order. Especially considering she, unlike Sylvanas, ultimately didn’t go though with it.
No thanks. With any luck the next time we see Sylvanas is when we walk her straight back to Pelagos to finally make sure she never darkens our doors again.
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Why would you ruin precious north sea shark chow by killing it before delivery? Smh.
This all sounds really bad to me. 
It’s just more of the post-hoc justifcations and/or whitewashing of alliance actions that people complain about to slant the story even more unnecessarily toward alliance=good horde=bad than it already is, undercutting one of the vanishingly few instances of alliance acting badly against the horde and then inverting it so that Aethas is the one apologizing for Jaina’s reaction.
It’d be better not to have peace at all between these characters than to have Aethas go “Jaina I’m so sorry that you had to imprison and have some of us killed, please be my friend uwu”.
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