Full fairness to Jaina, she actually saved a few Sunreavers from me when I did the quest just now.
She does just like…assassinate Athas’s personal guard, though. That was pretty cold. She used frost bolt.
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The Sunreaver guards were just so hostile, even though it was in Jaina’s right as their leader to arrest them! Jaina only used her offensive magic to defend the PC from hostile guards that were trying to attack us.
Either way, the hate Jaina gets from the Horde-biased communiy is vastly-overblown. Jaina really didn’t do anything that wasn’t within her legal rights.
Just generally how discussion of things like the Nerubians and Earthen are low key affairs of a few dozen posts versus this faction thread about an at this point ancient questline. The Arathi seem to get slightly more coverage, but a lot of that seems to be because of their potential faction ties, and ramblings about who’s getting enough screentime seem to be the big movers in TWW discussion. It just reminds me of how I felt the time I quit the forums back during BFA, getting depressed that threads about the Nazjatar lore were dead in the water (heh) while the faction stuff was post after post after post of arguing. At least that was when faction squabbling was an integral part of what was going on, rather than (again) a decade old questline.
I think there was plenty of interesting potential in the faction conflict at one point. It was almost always squandered, and they ended up so thoroughly botching it at the end I’m of the (disappointed and reluctant) opinion burying it is just the best option in the long run.
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They weren’t hostile. Jaina attacked first. Your trolling is obvious.
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Oh? The undead banshee didn’t express warm feelings? The injustice. Come on. Why do people keep saying that? Sylvanas was badass because she wasn’t your typical character. She uses her people as tools. Yeah, everyone does that. What’s the difference? Cause she was more honest about it? What?
I was just saying why I think her “for the Horde” was insincere to begin with. That was the context.
I don’t think it was, cause it was the most epic “For the Horde” ever.
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It wasen’t that she was incapable , she was lying to herself about it
To me it was too screechy.
But the point I was making that she couldn’t be sincerere if in her entire career she never developed warm feelings for the Horde, she was always calculative and cold, so it would be in her character to purposefully use it to rally Horde simpletons, not becuase she actually felt a real passion toward the Horde.
Better use these “pathetic weaklings” to defend her city.
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Still not understanding what you are saying here. She’s supposed to what? Tickle your bum or something? What? She’s a member of the Horde, she joined the Horde because she needed it. She fights for the Horde because she’s part of it. But somehow because she isn’t nice about it, that’s insincere?
The why didn’t she fly away during the Legion scenario? I mean the Horde was done for. All leadership was on the floor, she was the only one left and like it or not, she saved the Horde that day.
You people have a very romantic notion of caring for combat personnel.
I think I laid the issue verey clearly. She can be competent commander and all (and that is debatable imo), but her screeech will remain as mere calculative screech - a tool- , I believe “For the Horde!” to have it’s full effect should’ve come right from the very soul. You have to be devoted to it and really believe it.
That would constitue to me as “epic warcry” becuase it would be sincere. Horde is mostly consisting of barbaric nations, that adhere to the romanticized idea of what makes a true warrior.
And people were arguing before me that there is a big gap in her portrayal becuase in one cinematic she screams “For the Horde!” and in the next one “The Horde is Nothing”.
I’m saying it’s not really contradictionary if you’ll take that her “For the Horde” was hollow, it was a tool to rally soldiers, not becuase she thought highly or she cared for the Horde.
If there is a consistent thing about Sylvanas, then it would be that the Horde is merely a tool for her own ambitions, she doesn’t have any real connection to it’s members, she is incapable of creating a meaningful bond.
Therefore her “Hode is nothing” wasn’t schoking to me. It’s exactly in line of “Pathetic Weakings” from Pit of Saron.
And I get it it’s Sylvanas thing, she even called her own people “bulwark against damnation” and “arrows in the quiver”, So she was aways like that. This is why her “For the Horde” meant nothing.
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You didn’t. Cause I still don’t get what you on about. Unless you are telling me that you think she’s insincered because you don’t like her. Yeah, heard that before in Cataclysm with Garrosh. You don’t even seem to understand what the Horde is. It’s not a bunch of buddies coming together to tickle each other’s bellies. They come together out of necessity, they need each other to survive so unless you gonna tell me that Sylvanas who came back from the grave because she saw her Forsaken failing without her, going as far as jumping into a fire to avoid being captured, does not care, at least about her Forsaken, I don’t know what the hell you on about.
But until they dropped that Jailer crap on her character, she was very much loyal to the Horde, her actions speaking for themselves. She did her part. She did more than her part since again, the Horde isn’t rotting at the Broken Shore because of her. So I don’t really know what you are talking about.
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Nah even in the sylvanas novel it shows her being sincerely loyal, just not really caring about the warrior culture. Even after the jailer said “but lava eels tho” she doesn’t decide to side with him, until he predicts literally everything that happens from the end of WoTLK to Legions ending
It was literally the most epic scene in any cinematic we had before. Metzen had the right idea then Afrasiabi ruined it.
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So did the Vereesa mind you.
Me liking her or not has nothing to do with it. I provided examples where she showed disadin to the Horde, I believe you said youself that Forsaken made alliance of convenience with the Horde. So they didn’t really adhere to the values of the Horde and mostly did their stuff on their own.
That was the constant thing about her, to use others to achieve her personal goals. This is why “Horde is nothing” wasn’t really shocking.
Her portrayal for last few expansion is a total mess, each new source was contradicting itself.
But I balme is squarely on the writers that made her the Warchief to begin with. And throwing us on the same path once more.
Everyone made an alliance of convenience with the Horde. What you think orcs liked having corpses around if they couldn’t fight like hell? You think the belfs joined in cause they actually loved orcs? Even the first members of the Horde, the Tauren, needed the orcs to fight off centaurs. Everyone needed everyone else. You really have a naive view of the Horde.
And if that were a constant, again, I ask, why not just let the Horde die at the Broken Shores? Nah, she did her duty to the point where they villain batted her.
But I agree, she should have never been Warchief, she was perfect as the leader of the Forsaken and nothing else. But most of us suspected why she got warchief-ed.
I already provided examples that in case of OG it was something more, it was brotherhood of arms, where 3 races joined together not only becuase it was convienient for them but also because they shared spiritual bond, that they had similar values and saw great value in the Horde.
Becuase Horde would still serve her purpose. If the Horde members died then she would lose some of the meatshields that could die for her. But then again if there was someone that should’ve die at that shore it should’ve been Thrall, and Vol’Jin should’ve been the one to escort the Horde to the safety.
Then we would have a nice conflict where Alliance is upset with the Horde for supposed treason, and act more agressive first.
But alas, what is done is done.
Really, is that why she risks her resurrection angels to save Horde members? Cause something does not add up here.
So you are upset that she got the spotlight there and you think Bore’jin should have and you say liking her has nothing to do with it. Come on.
I guess that’s why she went for Helya, to get back her ressurection angels. And which was the only thing we saw her do in Legion.
Well ye, shocking that I got upset that character which was built since Cataclysm and who earned position of Warchief to actually get a spotlight for being a Warchief.
Apparently that is unreasonable.