Jaina doesn't actually kill civilians in the Purge/Teleport them the Violet Hold

Thats what i want to say honestly.

Purging of dalaran is a good example of a morally grey event in general, but you have some alliance players going “no, this was totally fair and this wasn’t questionable at all” and you some horde players going “oh, jaina is totally evil, we should kill her in a raid fight”

I like Jaina, i don’t think she is necessarily evil, but she snapped a lot during the MOP era, and this is fine story wise, It should be fine for horde to view her as a villain and the alliance view her as a hero.

Another example of this that i can see is Tyrande and Maiev in WC3 and WoW. We see Tyrande killing wardens to free Illidan, which is questionable, but it is within her own people, then we get Maiev hyperfocusing on Illidan to the point of fully neglecting Tyrande, and later pursuing him when Malfurion granted him freedom in exile, Maiev’s obsession with Illidan led her to a dark path, yet, she had many qualities as a character, and while many stuff is still unexplained, she eventually found her peace of mind.

I think, ultimately, it is pointless to argue which crimes Jaina did do at the purge of Dalaran or not, the fact is, those actions harmed innocents on the horde and the horde characters have all the right to hate jaina for that.

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Personally I think her actions at Org where her inner dialog was about how great murdering kids was gonna feel was closer to that.

Jaina’s characterization has been a mess and I do not think they did a satisfactory job giving her a face turn, nor do I care for the “u da real victim in all this” crap pushed afterwards. I’m hoping the post-Golden era sidelines her a bit

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Without Golden we hopefully see alot of less human simping.

I think that Jaina shoul’ve been the one who dies in the raid, not Rastakhan. As you said her characterization was a mess for a long time, and her whole premise for BfA was “Beware, beware of me”, she lead a charge against a nation who didn’t even participate in Teldrassil. She was following footsteps of her father.
It was a good time to let her drop there. Zandalari lost a fleet, Alliance lost Jaina.
But instead, Zandalari additionally lost a king who was imo very likeable and for whom you waited since vanilla to meet, to be disposed off after one patch.

Secondly, you’d remove unreasonably powerful character. And my issue with uber characters like that is - that it is causing lots of narrative problems. if one character can hold entire army off - then why not make her solor it? Why wasting soldiers?

But devs ofc had to backtrack from it “oh, I’m just really sad and hurt, I’m not evil, feel pity for me”.

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It should be, but the narrative won’t let us, because they keep rubbing in our faces how her change of heart was all “our” fault.

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That is a perfect problem of writing to address.

It seems to be a byproduct of not deciding wheter you want faction conflict going or to stop.

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I’m not sure how the writing can fix the problem, at this point.

Also, when you say “you” can’t decide whether you want faction conflict or not, do you mean me specifically or a generic “you” that presumably means the writers?

He mean the devs can’t decide, considering the times they have tried it backfired pretty spectaturely in their faces

Yeah, sorry for my bad english, when the writers cant decide for good.

They seem to be stuck bouncing between realizing ending the conflict for good being what is best for the long term health of the setting, and knowing if they pull that trigger they will get a widespread player revolt.

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Lor’themar actually expressed Hathorel’s sentiment in the Sylvanas novel. Vol’jin agreed with him and Khadgar didn’t argue.

“Many of our magi were murdered in Dalaran not so long ago,” Lor’themar said. “This does not sound neutral to the blood elves.”
“I understand your suspicion,” Khadgar said, almost kindly. “But few places in Azeroth are innocent of a violent history, and a gathering of all the world’s leaders is sure to be noticed by the Legion’s spies. Dalaran has no shortage of defenses and is likely the safest place. I cannot force anyone to attend, but I will say this: As we have seen before, there is no defeating the Burning Legion without cooperation . . . and trust.”
Vol’jin looked at Khadgar, choosing his words. “Ya speak the truth. An’ so does Lor’themar. The Legion makes no distinction between Horde an’ Alliance. An’ if we gonna beat ’em . . . we cannot afford to, either. So we gonna trust you, Khadgar. The Horde will be there.”

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Sincerely don’t even remember what the other one is supposed to be. I think I know what this is about but you’ll have to refresh my memory.

The Stonespire village that Bael modan was built over.

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There it is.

That wasn’t even during Cata, which is the timeframe we’re discussing. But since you’re really hard up for examples, I’ll grant it to you. That’s two.

Have any more? Because maybe I am just not remembering the dozens of instances of settlements Alliance wipes out.

Interesting. I could’ve sworn it was a prominent thing but it could be something speculated. Here’s what I could find from Tides of War:

Instead, there was a violet glow, almost pretty, like moonlight on snow, emanating from the city. And above that deceptively pleasant radiance, the sky was putting on a show. Bright spikes of lightning slashed through the blackness in all colors of the rainbow. Here and there, the jagged illumination lingered, moving and turning only to wink out and reappear elsewhere. They were close enough to hear booming and cracking sounds as the very fabric of the world was again and again rent asunder and knitted together. (p. 222)

The soft purple glow heralded the blanket of arcane energy that enveloped Theramore. The mana bomb, so thoughtfully provided by the blood elves—who stood cheering with other Horde members who somehow felt that what Garrosh had wrought was a good thing—had exploded over an entire city and had not just harmed its citizens and buildings but crushed them utterly. Baine had watched both friend and foe perish from arcane magic attacks far too often to feel anything but fury at what he beheld. The people caught in the blast had been blown apart inside, as magic distorted and reformed them down to the last drop of blood. The buildings, too, were remade from the inside. So great had the blast been that Baine knew that every creature, every blade of grass, every handful of soil was now rendered dead and worse than dead. And the awful magic would linger. Baine did not deal with magic. He did not know how long the eerie violet glow that marked Garrosh’s calculated brutality would pulsate around the city of the slain. But Theramore would not be livable for a long time. (p. 223)

Morning was unkind to the ruins of Theramore. Without the gentling of the darkness, the stark devastation was blatant. Smoke still curled upward from the mostly dead fires. The arcane anomalies that had provided a show of lights at night were revealed to be evidence of realities and dimensions ripped asunder. One could even glimpse other worlds. Hovering in the air were not only rocks and chunks of earth that had been torn free, but the debris of buildings and weapons. Bodies turned slowly in the air, like grotesque puppets floating in water. The crackling and thundering were ceaseless. (p. 225)

Something interesting I found about the Focusing Iris is that it’s related to the Twisting Nether?

It was previously mentioned that once harnessed, the energies are focused through the Nexus’ ascending rings and blasted into the Twisting Nether. In Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects , this function of the Nexus is not mentioned. It is implied that the diverted energies were stored there.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Focusing_Iris

Also Surge Needles are related to the Iris:

Surge needles are massive constructs that aid in the redirection of ley lines for Malygos
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Surge_needle

Malygos had used his own blood to activate and control this orb, which had lain dormant for millennia. With the open Focusing Iris, Malygos had been able to direct (and create[4]) powerful surge needles, using them to pull arcane magic from Azeroth’s ley lines and channeling that magic into the Nexus.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/The_Focusing_Iris#:~:text=short%20stories.-,Malygos,-had%20used%20his

And it seems that Surge Needles have the ability to tear into dimensional space into the Twisting Nether:

The Ethereum seeks to become an unstoppable force–to become void,[1] and they are using the surge needles in Coldarra to bore into the Twisting Nether and call up void energies
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ethereum

Some info about Arcane and it’s impact on reality and space/time:

Arcane magic (also called Order magic, arcane energy, or arcana) is a cold and intellectual magic that warps time, space, and controls the flow of mana, which is just a measure of a fundamental power—if mana were water, then arcane would be steam pressure. Though extremely volatile, arcane is so similar to an element it might as well be one, for all magical intents and purposes. As the manifestation of Order in the Great Dark Beyond and the Twisting Nether, arcane is the language of order and the opposite end of the spectrum from fel, which represents Disorder.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arcane

The text seems to be quite clear that the destruction was something that was worse than death itself. The ‘reality’ of the impact zone is in a constant state of being torn apart and reconstitution which would imply perpetual destruction ‘for a long time’.

There’s also mention about glimpses to other worlds, so I believe this might be where this ‘timeline’ thing came about. What exactly does ‘evidence of realities and dimensions ripped asunder’ and ‘one could even glimpse other worlds’ truly mean? I think this is where we enter speculation.

I’m assuming here that if the bomb is an allegory to the atomic bomb, and the impact zone is akin to a nuclear fallout zone, we would then need to also see it as an Arcane fallout zone where there the rules of arcane magic would have to be followed.

I also went to search where this information might have originated from and found this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/56msdp/comment/d8km6e1/

I believe most of the information are correct, and those in quotes can be found. The part about the timelines is the posters own write-up with a broken link. Which is understandable given its 8 years ago.

So I think this should be classified as a theory rather than something official because there’s no clear understanding of what things like “realities and dimensions ripped asunder” and “glimpse other worlds” truly means. It could range from something in a localized context as the destruction is on such a fundamental level that even their souls cease to exist (but this would be more inline with Fel rather than Arcane?), to some weird atomic destruction where the atoms are in flux and doing weird things, to some sort of weird dimensional twist related to the Twisting Nether, to realities as in every reality in existence at the point where the arcane fallout occurred (as in that point of space/time is irrevocably damaged?)

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Cant have another faction war without playerbase revolt.

Can’t drop faction conflict for good for the very same reason.

This is so weird considering the game is 90% pve focused

I’m fine with dropping the faction conflict, even with the Afrisiabi/Danuser/Golden eras in the rearview mirror, BFA killed any hope of anyone actually enjoying a third go at it.

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People will complain but they will always stick around if the content is good. That’s it, that’s the whole secret. And on some level I think Blizzard knows this because between Shadowlands and the end of the Worldsoul Saga they’ve committed to almost* a decade of faction neutral stories and content. They’re just not announcing it as such.

*Assuming Blizzard can actually get the WSS expansions out at a faster rate like they’ve said they want to. If they do actually end up taking closer to 2 years a piece it will have been over a decade since a faction lead/faction war narrative was helming an expansion by the time it’s done.

I wasn’t in it for the simping :wink:

Thats assuming whatever they do with Avaloren isn’t a sort of pseudo faction war where we take on a faction that embodies the worse aspects of the Alliance without fighting the Alliance directly.