They weren’t even part of the Horde when it happened.
Just watch the video from this point. It will show you that she kills them. The only one she teleports away is Aethas.
Teldrassil was a Horde city?
I think he is referring to things prior to BFA, I consider Teldrassil still in BFA.
Things like Camp Taurajo, southern Barrens, etc.
Just like Taurajo, there were civilian casualties.
They moved away from the rhetoric that Jaina snapped and mass murdered people because… well, the overall perception is that they can’t make the alliance do anything bad, mostly something questionable, but nothing “evil”.
While even the Horde when things happened with Garrosh - everything started with them being ambushed by the Twilight Hammer on the way to Theramore making it like the Alliance did the attack, which ignited his hatred towards the alliance, to Varian’s reaction to what happened in Wrathgate and later their encounter in Dalaran… and the worst part which most of the player base forget about, is that Wrathion manipulated Garrosh to destroy the alliance so they could survive and beat the Legion later.
I wouldn’t call things that happened 3-4 years ago Pure Alliance hostility. Considering The Hillsbrad Fields, Gilneas, Southshore, Thal’darah Grove, Astra—You get what im saying, I could link every Alliance town at this point. Wasn’t Pure Alliance Hostility during Cata.
I know your not saying that ofcourse!
I’m not going to go on about Tauajo but when its the only defense the Horde has for Alliance actions, it is sort of saying something
Yet this is from Baines mouth himself about his own town
‘Baine Bloodhoof called Camp Taurajo a legitimate military target and recognized that Hawthorne refused to slaughter civilians when he could have just given the order to massacre everyone’
Ofcourse I play Horde too and just because something means well doesn’t mean it is, when civilians die, there isn’t a ‘but actually’. I will argue the Alliance has barely been the aggressor and they haven’t had many ‘bad’ moments, i’ve love to see that change honestly. But I worry about the writting.
You mean the video from 2020? Meanwhile here I am following her on my Alliance and she is just teleporting them.
It is not like we players write the story, right.
For as long as I remember the writers decided to push the narrative down the throat of horde players. For example, making Kael’thas a villain in Outlands along with their blood elves, while still working with Illidan they weren’t showing that sign of becoming a villain.
You see, the Horde up to Cataclysm has never committed officially villain acts towards the alliance. Few NPCs did that. I’d take the Forsaken off this table as they were experimenting with Humans, and Sylvanas allowed that, and we know that she wasn’t ordering Putricide to attack the alliance nor the horde at Wrathgate (and up to that point she had no deal with the Jailer either).
So, for starters, back in Vanilla, Thrall send Horde players to rescue Moira in order to make a gesture towards Magni Bronzebeard to “build alliances”.
Quests like The Eastern Kingdoms shows that and when you go back to Thrall to inform what passed in the Blackrock Depths, he says he must confer with Sylvanas and Cairne, which makes me understand that both faction leaders were aware of this gesture and movement of the Horde towards to extend their relationship with the dwarves.
That is, in the game, right? Later, it was retconned bu Chronicles to show that alliance actually saved her. What a bum, how would it fit the narrative of the bad Horde if they were actually trying to do any good?
Also still in Vanilla, the alliance send their forces to assassinate Nathanos, notable member of the Horde. Who sent them? Bolvar himself, Lord regent of Stormwind.
He is not doing that because he thinks Nathanos is with the scourge. He knows he is with the Forsaken.
I could jump later to Wrathgate, where Varian does blame Thrall while he forgets that Draenosh Saurfang died also in the Wrathgate along with many horde. He blames them for “their evil” whilst he knows for a fact that Putricide colluded with Varimathras.
Blaming them for not seeing that is one thing, but to charge at them to kill them, that was kinda edgy.
These things is what we kinda forget about. The narrative always took the left exit whenever the alliance did something questionable. And of course, all the retcons that “adjusted” the alliance’s behavior.
So, can we settle that with the fact that the devs purposefully removed most of the good will acts the Horde did towards the alliance with retcons and purposefully write most of our Leaders to act like villains?
There was never a balance with the rhetoric, sadly.
We could get videos from when it happened. Changing the narrative down the road to make someone look better is bad writing, don’t you agree with that?
It could be a bug… is there a patch notes saying that Jaina is no longer killing the NPCs?
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That would have been interesting though, the Moira part. I agree, some of the retconning the game gets rather annoying when its looked at like that honestly.
So early on when the patch released during MoP she would kill them, later it was patched so she teleported them. I played before the patch, so I remember her spamming frostbolts at everyone. Even the Horde player if I remember correctly.
I’ve always wondered if that was them just making her not seem super bad rather then actually fixing a ‘bug’. Like Alliance side you don’t see half the stuff you do on Horde. You don’t see the Silver Cov fighting or the apparent Stormwing troopers stationed in Dalaran helping them. To the Alliance players, it was the Player Character helping doing all the work, which is why some people ignore the Purge since they’ve only ever played Alliance.
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Changing something to what it should always have been in not bad writing. It is simply a tech issue that was fixed.
Why would they add that to a patch note? Suffice to say alot of things are not added in a patch note and thanks to Remix anyone can speed run the rep requirement. Heck, if not for the fact I need a level 30 Horde to complete this questline I would be doing the Horde version right now just to make sure Jaina acts the same way Horde side(and prove that even when the player attacks her she just teleports them to the VH)
I did it when it was current(I feel old suddenly) and I saw her teleport them! Yes there were random times she would kill them(particularly if I ended up aggroing them) but for the most part she was always teleporting them.
That was MUCH later, right?
You can see the video I posted from 2020 that shows that still happening.
now I don’t know if it was done during BFA (to adjust the narrative for Jaina) or during shadowlands. Sadly when you don’t have patch notes or even a lore note about the change, we might not know.
OP treated it as a bug, which is weird that is not how the story went down.
If “imprisioning” people was all she did, it wouldn’t have driven the Sin’dorei out of the negotiation to join the alliance.
She was about to send giant water elementals to wreck havoc in Orgrimmar and if it wasn’t for Thrall she would’ve done it.
She literally snapped, the retcon idea doesn’t make much sense.
It should’ve been part of her development in BFA to regret her doing to later make amends with Lor’themar. The way it was done seemed… superficial.
Is there a patch note or statement saying that it is how it should always have been or are you trying to post your opinion as a fact?
Do you have a patch note saying that? Usually there is.
Ok, pointless to discuss.
To me it looks like a bug rather than a retcon. Get some official sources, we can talk about. If we are to talk about how things are right now half as source of “truth” most quests we do are literally broken and we can literally say that the universe is broken and nothing else is true.
I’d like to take the conservative approach.
She killed them during the whole MoP run and no later than Shadowlands it was changed. What is the relevance of changing a scenario after the expansion is already finished? Or “fixing” a bug?
It is more likely a bug happened due to a change in the game. It has happened several times. Perhaps it was due to a change of spell scaling she couldn’t kill them anymore and then she had a mechanism of teleporting them in case they wouldn’t die in time?
So many things could explain, and they would be a lot more reasonable than your hypothesis.
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Some of you guys I swear your argument point for this will be engraved on your tombstones.
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I have friends playing Horde complaining to see Jaina killing on sight Blood elves while on the Alliance side, she is just teleporting them.
Both side saw the same action - Jaina roaming the streets, taking care of every blood elves crossing her path - but we don’t see her doing the same thing.
I remember when i did the purge in 2019 with my worgen that Jaina randomly killed or teleported blood elves, not anymore it seems.
It’s an awful way to tell a story, only there to antagonize the Horde players toward the Alliance.
I don’t care about the “point of view” excuse, it’s just a way to cover their dirty work.
Frankly, what’s wrong to show the Alliance doing dirty things? To not shock the Alliance players who wanted to be heroic?
If this is the case, what a pussy (and i’m an Alliance player): We have two playable factions with players wanting to be heroic for both side.
War is dirty and it’s normal to see both factions doing questionnable things too.
What is not normal is to tone down the Alliance side, letting the feeling that the Alliance wasn’t allowed to strike back properly.
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The “official source” is literally in two months from now. I would also point out neither Lother’mar or anyone has accused Jaina of killing civilians. In fact, she has never mentioned it in any of her regrets and Aethas of all people is planning on giving her a gift to try and make a mends. That does not sound like someone who randomly killed/murdered people. Certainly no one is acting like Jaina is some stone cold killer.
Or it was never “toned down” and this was always the intent. That Jaina at least was never going around killing civilians(at least those that didnt resist) and was avoiding as much needless death while still imprisoning the Sunreavers.
This sounds like the Jaina ingame when she is under her normal mental state and not shocked by a genocidal attack on Theramore.
You don’t have it. Just admit, have some dignity.
It your wish that it is this way rather than being a fact.
That’s another topic, it doesn’t change the fact that I will again point out: it happened.
Varian scolds Jaina for what she did to the Sin’dorei in Dalaran. They were in negotiation to leave the Horde and join the Alliance.
Jaina’s actions drove them back to the Horde.
It wasn’t just imprisoning people in Violet Hold. That would be a minor misunderstanding that Varian could talk Lor’themar.
I am still waiting your source confirming that she didn’t kill.
Shouldn’t be hard, you’re claiming it.
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And you dont have anything she was murdering civilians. In fact all we have is this ingame even and it clear she is avoid killing anyone and teleporting them to VH.
Except it did not/every source we have is silent on whether she did killed civilians or not.
We know civilians were killed. But not by Jaina’s hand, at least not directly. That would be reason enough for Lothermar not to want to talk.
Everyone knows Baine is a coward who hates his own faction.
What Baine says does not change events.
When Sylvanas visits Thunder Bluff, she spits Taurajo in their face, and it shuts those cows up. Every one there knows what she means.
Also - Blizzard made a point in BfA to add a Tauren NPC who was angry about Taurajo, and wants revenge against the Alliance, even after Teldrassil is burnt.
Just because Baine makes some declaration does not change how the average Tauren feels about it.
That is just false.
In that BfA scenario we were discussing, where they free Baine, Hathorel specifically calls her a murderer. And talks about watching his friends die.
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Its not even the only settlement in the southern barrens the Alliance has destroyed
1 person does. Everyone else(even Lothermar) seemsto consider it water under the bridge/not her fault.
I assume you’re referring to Theramore. From what I understand, the idea that it was destroyed in every timeline is fan interpretation, not canon fact. But if anyone knows of an official statement about this, please link me to it.
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