Jaina doesn't actually kill civilians in the Purge/Teleport them the Violet Hold

[Giru-khazgoroth (Giru)]

Yea i suppose that simply my takeaway from it

[Danseis-silver-hand (Danseis)]

Very. Not only was it dumb, but I also found it insulting. The Alliance and the Horde had plenty of drama to fight about without one side being made the “bad guys.” It was as if he was saying that the journey I had gone on hadn’t mattered.

[Raychee-area-52]

@Meldaea-cenarion-circle

@Giru-khazgoroth

Blizzard certainly tries to make you feel bad, i recall danuser saying something like the horde fanbase didn’t learn from the cata-mop arc so thats why they were doing it again

I remember this interview too (and how it devolved into shameless back-patting about the justice BfA would do to WC3’s characters), and I also specifically recall this comment… but I’m pretty sure they were talking about the Horde itself, not its players.

Not to detract from how immensely false and stupid even that sentiment was - if anything, MoP did a far superior job examining the Horde’s flaws and branding it back to its WC3 portrayal, as engraved upon the Cleft of Shadows’ stone plaque - but still.

And the premise that they have to do it again, because the Horde didn’t learn anything, is non-sense. “That logic doesn’t even hold” level of non-sense. If the Horde didn’t learn anything, it was because they wrote the Horde that way. In the end the only reason they were villain batting the Horde was because they wanted to.

[Denona-khazgoroth (Denona)]

@Nezmith-moon-guard

Imagine meeting an Alliance 7th Legion captain in a new zone, who stays back from the front lines, and gives orders, but doesn’t lead from the front unlike a lot of fantasy generals. Until later he comes to aid the hero and transforms, revealing he was a Worgen the whole time.

‘looks at Lieutenant Thorn from WoD’

[Mö-wyrmrest-accord]

@Pellex-hyjal

I can remember accusations flying toward members of both factions saying that they must be fascists IRL or else they wouldn’t have picked the side they did. And “fascist” was one of the milder accusations, tbh.

I remember that too. I read those posts in the voices of the two fish arguing at Weenie Hut Jr in that one Spongebob episode.

[Blackwayke-wyrmrest-accord]

I’m going to not learn from the cata-mop arc even harder

[Gunfist-moon-guard]

The only reason they are villan batting the Horde is cause the Alliance cried a lot. Let’s be honest here. When the Alliance cries, stuff happens. You noticed? Remember that daily that made them seem a bit evil, they roared on the forums until it was changed. Remember in BFA when they cried Horde bias because of the mounts? MOUNTS! They added a quest line for some bee mount that the Horde will never be able to obtain, the proverbial letter of sumbmission by Blizzard.

The only acceptable story is when the Horde is the sock puppet that goes evil on command, loses on command and the Alliance feels better, feels special. That crap has DESTROYED both factions. The Horde is a joke, it’s so messed up you can call it something else cause it’s no longer recognizable and the Alliance is a joke because everyone in it has been reduced to being humans, morally speaking, there is nothing special in the Alliance, just funny looking people agreeing with each other, a generic personality that covers the whole faction and the Horde is on the same path.

[Ceylan-norgannon]

@Gunfist-moon-guard

That crap has DESTROYED both factions. The Horde is a joke, it’s so messed up you can call it something else cause it’s no longer recognizable and the Alliance is a joke because everyone in it has been reduced to being humans, morally speaking, there is nothing special in the Alliance, just funny looking people agreeing with each other, a generic personality that covers the whole faction and the Horde is on the same path.

So much this. I’ve griped about the Red Alliance before but honestly, we’re suffering a fate that the Alliance already did. Homogenization into a single agreeable identity.

@Gunfist-moon-guard

Remember in BFA when they cried Horde bias because of the mounts? MOUNTS! They added a quest line for some bee mount that the Horde will never be able to obtain, the proverbial letter of sumbmission by Blizzard.

Gah, as a mount collector this still irks the heck out of me because the Alliance could and still can use the Horde equivalent (Child of Torcali, iirc). But the Honeyback Harvester is strictly Alliance.

[Zerde-sargeras (Zerde)]

@Ceylan-norgannon

Gah, as a mount collector this still irks the heck out of me because the Alliance could and still can use the Horde equivalent (Child of Torcali, iirc). But the Honeyback Harvester is strictly Alliance.

The reason for that was the Horde got a bunch of unique mounts and the Alliance got horses and gryphons. Now dont get me wrong, I like those two things and it makes sense a former Alliance aligned nation who have them but compared to the Horde it was fairly mundane/Horde had more unique/new options.

[Kaileath-wyrmrest-accord]

@Ceylan-norgannon

we’re suffering a fate that the Alliance already did. Homogenization into a single agreeable identity.

It is sort of an inevitable fate of this sort of medium unless at a very early stage the development team sets out core principles for the fiction and refuses to violate them. The temptation of homogenization is it makes things easy to write and relay to an often uncaring audience that just wants to get past the silly rp dialog and kill stuff.

[Raychee-area-52]

Not sure I agree with every thing. But I suspect that Blizzard feels that too many Alliance players can’t deal with moral complexity and are afraid of any hint they aren’t perfect.

Agree that it has been bad for both sides. There is a reason people keep calling the Alliance boring. A good story requires tension.

[Gunfist-moon-guard]

I would agree with that, but they have no problem swinging the Horde from one end of the room to the opposite one, now you are the bad guy, not you are the good guy just based on the fact that you are fighting the bad guy you used to work for and even agree with, they’ve done in MoP and BFA. So why are they so worried about the Alliance but not the Horde?

And a good story requres some risk. But they are not willing to do that to the point where they repeated the MoP scenario down to almost the same details, they just changed the punch line. I mean holy crap, I’ve seen that happen only in shows and books that go on for way too long, but honestly, when it comes to the story of WoW, there’s very little they explored. Now I get it, the basic repetition of certain generic events is required, it’s a game after all, so there’s always gonna be a bad guy that wants to eat up the world and the players have to beat them back, but what irks me is that the Alliance and the Horde are in the unique position to give some extra flavor to that generic repetition and they are killing that as we speak and I see some people cheering at that prospect. Why? That’s what I really don’t get.

[Varodoc-stormrage]

Anyway, Jaina didn’t actually kill anyone, the in-game action was a bug in the coding because the NPC was coded to attack other NPCs tagged as “hostile”.

Jaina Canonically didn’t kill anyone and had the defiant Sunreavers taken into custody in Violet Hold, which was within her legal rights as the supreme leader of the Kirin Tor. (all facts)

But if you are STILL not convinced, wait for Chronicles IV, there you will see… and concede.

[Furrfist-frostmourne]

The faction fanboys still going on about this is so funny to me because they’ll really overlook moral failings just so that they can feel good about their faction kekw

[Adelaide-proudmoore (Adelaide)]

I think it’s also important to note that a lot of the Sunreavers were civilians. Most of them in fact. You could even argue Aethas himself is a civilian.

Unlike the Silver Covenant that is explicitly a militant branch of high elves that Jaina sent after the Sunreavers.

[Zuleika-hyjal (Zuleika)]

@Varodoc-stormrage

Jaina didn’t actually kill anyone

She killed Aethas’s guards.

@Varodoc-stormrage

the in-game action was a bug in the coding

This may be true, but I still want someone to show me where this information comes from. No one has ever been able to link me to the source for it.

@Varodoc-stormrage

wait for Chronicles IV, there you will see… and concede.

I’m curious: will you concede if Chronicles IV happens to say that Jaina did kill civilians?

[Waygs-bleeding-hollow]

@Varodoc-stormrage

Anyway, Jaina didn’t actually kill anyone

she explicitly did kill people, lore written after the widely misunderstood bug tweet confirmed it.

The bug was her machine gunning down sunreavers like an 80s action star, they never said she didn’t kill anyone (and ultimately she was still responsible for unleashing Veressa and her gang on the city)

[Gunfist-moon-guard]

Actually since we are doing Mop, people can do the scenario. Bug or not, at the end of it she admits that she killed those who resisted.

@Furrfist-frostmourne

The faction fanboys still going on about this is so funny to me because they’ll really overlook moral failings just so that they can feel good about their faction kekw

I don’t mind people doing that, that’s what the writers should do, present each faction story in such a manner that the player feels good about their faction. But the types who come here and act all righteous because they think they are the right faction, or worse, try to belittle others and imply there’s something wrong with them based on the faction they chose, like Horde fans being called quite a few names, yeah, those people need to have their heads checked.

Now I liked where there was Horde vs Alliance even among the players, as long as it was done in the spirit of fun, not malice cause at the end of the day, we are all Warcraft players.

[Varodoc-stormrage]

Interesting how you always keep up the narrative of “poor Horde players being called names”, but never ever bring up the Devs themselves joking that the Alliance’s battle cry should be “Have mercy” and the Blizzcon crowd laughing.

Very interesting that you never bring this up and it’s only the poor Horde players getting called names in one post.

[Waygs-bleeding-hollow]

I’m sorry you had to hear a dev make a quippy joke almost 15 years ago, it must have been quite distressing for you