I’m looking for choice.
I get the concern. If choice occurs. who groups? seriously.
There’s no concern. You have a choice. Group or don’t. That choice has always existed.
What you’re asking for is antithetical to MMO’s. Why play a multiplayer game if you don’t want to play with other people?
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You’re not going to make sense of something that is a cognitive distortion and contradiction in itself.
So. You run group finder for the socialization not the progression and loot?
LFR? Battlegrounds? You have meaningful conversations with group members and don’t rush to the end only to see whether or not you got your shiny, if you did… never to run it again.
My sole issue is with M+ follower dungeons that yield “competitive” rewards. I have and continue to address this concern with this part of the OP. I don’t need to take issue with the entire OP to make this point, and I wish you would carefully re-read my responses as well the OP if you are having trouble understanding why this is the case. Because I don’t have a problem with follower content overall, and because my concern doesn’t invalidate the entire OP, nor should it.
Having just now re-read the thread, yes, many people myself included support additional follower content. I don’t see many people asking for M+ follower content that reward “competitive” rewards, besides OP. So, no, that is not a popular hill to die on, most likely because it sounds like begging. Why bring that up about my point? What does broad support for additional follower content have to do with my point? To reiterate, follower M+ content should not yield “competitive” rewards with regular M+ content if it is to be included.
It’s unfortunate you believe my experience is a “minority.” Non-toxic groups are not made by luck, they are actively fostered with people skills and a positive attitude. Make your own groups, and friend people who show you the same amount of respect you show them. If you are constantly running into toxic groups, consider the inner and outer resources available to you to change that outcome.
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Maybe not, but the line of questioning is genuine. I am genuinely curious why someone who is so adverse to grouping, or social interactions with other players that they would play multiplayer games hoping that they become single player games.
You’re conflating different things.
Group finder is for heroics, which is all that’s available to me right now. So yes, I’ll use that for progression while I fish/mine/herb and make gold in preparation for S1, where everything I do will be premade groups; mostly with people I know well and play with regularly.
Matchmaking content is dull AF
You mis read. I am not adverse anything. I’m pro options. ability to decide way forward in all aspects, all content.
I think the general consensus for most is that those are “okay” for those who can’t socialize. Then there is the category of those who WON’T socialize. Lets not confuse the two comparisons.
People do create groups to find members to participate in group content (99% of the game*).
Even going back to Vanilla there was a necessity to find groups, however instead of having a place to advertise for specific roles, you had to do so in writing (Chat). In the end it reduced spam, and the time necessary to find members to participate in content.
Why do we need to have “Meaningful” conversations? Do I need to be “meaningful” when I’m doing easier content like LFR? Battle Grounds, or LFG (not mythic+)?
What is “Meaningful” conversation? Because I find something meaningful doesn’t mean they do.
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I find the LFG is the most toxic place. M0s and m+ tends to be more chill. People will talk to you, give you foods and buffs. Heck, I did a key in s3 of DF where the healer left before the first boss. One of the dps ran out of the dungeon, changed to heals and we still completed it on-time! Been running keys with them ever since. It’s really just about finding the right people to play with.
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No.
The chaos of grouping with real human beings is part of the difficulty with group content. Butt pulls, Pyrrhic victories, wasted Lusts, syncing CDs, equipment/talent node/player skill differentials, etc. NPC content is always scripted. Even if the NPCs were programmed to make “mistakes,” this too is scripted. Removing the human element from content reduces that content’s intended difficulty; it doesn’t deserve the same treatment.
Point being is if you as a player want to group with other to complete objective. Great! Do that!
If i as a player want to complete objectives using a different method, Great! Do that!
However, i do see the pushback.
If NPC method works, original method will become increasingly rare. Not out of anti socialism rather convenience
One of my favorite past times growing up is jrpgs and going through a nice dungeon with your anime character squad. It is nice. People tend to have conficting personalities and expectations and make the experience worse. I agree.
MMOs are often played by anti social people
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The push back has a lot of dynamics and they’re not all for the same reasons.
If people can complete group content and it impacts LFG, LFR, they’re not going to be content. Because we already had an issue with a segmented community that not only generalized everyone as “Toxic” but also condemns higher ranking players as the cause for the games “condition” or “state.” Even if they had nothing to do with the decisions made in the game. A lot of the toxic behaviors and views are at the common player level.
This is more than the superficial objective fetch quest, or kill 10 sheep and turn in. People are able to play the game without socializing and generally that is antithetical to the game itself. This is a case of McDonald’s moving to making Tacos and Burritos with little to no knowledge or experience in the field.
WoW is successful because of its unique design philosophies and changes. Now it is trying to be everything that it isn’t. Sure it’ll attract players from other MMOs, but this isn’t going to resolve the player deficit and community issues.
For example you wouldn’t stop an addiction by providing a supply of said narcotic without supervision or methods to stop it and lead inevitably to recovery. We are enabling the issues.
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“Anti-social” or introverts? ASPD is Psychopathy and Sociopathy, aka “Anti-social.”
A disregard for others physical and mental well being, a personality disorder characterized by severe disregard for life and often severe legal consequence prior to adulthood.
Is what you’re getting at that you think that mythic raid rewards should be accessible to “solo players” via solo player means?
If so, hard disagree. That’s been the entire point of WoW since inception. Level up, group up, gear up.
If max progression can be achieved via solo player means…I guess there’s not a lot of point in having an MMO is there?
Indeed.
Any reward available to everyone.
Now do you go the social route to achieve it?
Do you go the NPC route?
You could choose.
Yeah, if follower dungeons rewarded the same amount of crests or could be spammed or yielded the same Vault rewards, then why do M+? Not good.
Fortunately, the devs haven’t gone the route of making this a single player game like you’re advocating for.
I still seriously question why you’re here in an MMO, wanting the game to be a single player game.
It’s like me telling FromSoftware “hey guys Elden ring is good but it needs cars, let’s get some cars into this game ASAP.” It would run completely counter to the design of the game, exactly in the same what you’re talking about runs counter to the design of WoW.