It's time to admit M+ and tank changes have made this season DOA

Because half a percent of players achieved 10s last week.

Historically I’ve been in the top 5-10%, not top 0.5% So it feels really crappy being left in the dust. I would be willing to bet a vast majority of the top 0.5% have groups to play with… I just pug.

I’m not even trying for 9/10s this season… I’m just planning to get my mount at 2k and quit til season 2> possibly do the same thing again depending on balancing in season 2.

Disappointing as this was the first time I had my son interested in playing… we were so hyped and then bamn… the loot track was like uh nope, no rewards of ANY KIND except weekly vault until you can clear 9s~… zzzz Discouraging for a relatively casual player

Edit: M+7 = hero eod, but I guess I’m not good enough to pug 7’s in champion 610 gear without bashing my head against a wall waiting for the lotto group that can get me through… Tried on 610 tank, healer, and dps… Pretty discouraging.

3 Likes

DF S1 gave out top end loot at +20, and on a consistent basis, S1 is harder than S2 and so forth.

It did. Hero loot now caps out 13 item levels below myth instead of 6, and requires a +10 to get myth vault and +9 to get the equivalent of aspect crests (gilded now). 10’s are also objectively harder this season than last season.

These are clear nerfs. And iirc, hero track loot dropped in lower keys too last season. Don’t quote me on that, though. I didn’t run a lot of lower keys.

For me, I think the difficult shift is a good thing. In that quote, I’m telling the guy not to skip to 10’s in champion gear. But I can also lament the state of mythic gear acquisition for pure m+ players. They get 24 chances at mythic loot total over the course of a season, if they start in week 1. Mythic raiders are fully geared and extending by week 10, while a very lucky m+ player is only half way geared.

It’s also infinitely easier for a Raider to supplement their loot with mythic plus then it is for a mythic plus player to supplement their loot with raid.

3 Likes

I comprehend that. I was clearing 20 keys the first week of shadowlands. (Barely, but was doing so none the less.) Because the gradual climb of gear was more reasonable.)

Then why is your keystone conqueror achievement so late?

And not even KSM.

That’s some troll stuff man. You’re better than that.

They claimed to clear +20 week 1 of shadowlands, so I went to check if they did.

They did not.

People are unable to grasp difficulty relativity, so they run dungeons that have been nerfed by 50% because it’s say month two or three, and are surprised they can’t do the same when that nerf isn’t in yet.

So you saw the season started Dec 8th, and I completed “all 10 keys” by Jan 22nd?

What exactly did you think you were going to prove with that? lol

I literally said [quote=“Cc-tichondrius, post:565, topic:1969023”]
(Barely, but was doing so none the less.)
[/quote]
Just because I didn’t clear them all on week one doesnt really prove anything? If anything it proves what I said.
Cute though…

My point, was merely that it was significantly different. You had a fair and gradual climb for gear. So if you couldnt clear 7 keys in champion gear, you could farm a few pieces of hero gear. (Multiplied times the entire party, makes a huge difference)

3 Likes

Upgraded champion gear = hero gear track at max upgrades.

And cause this was your SL main:

https://raider.io/characters/us/tichondrius/Wayne?season=season-sl-1

Not seeing +20 here.

You’re right it was dragon flight
Edit*Which since you care so much, you could have quickly figured out.

2 Likes

Not true for Dragonflight either. Are you going to name BFA next?

People who haven’t done stuff early on, are upset, they can’t do stuff now.

Which based on historical performance, they are exactly where they belong. (Probably higher, if we compare historical seasons.)

So yes, I want to see someone that cleared +20 in DF S1 week 1 and finds it too hard to do +10 right now.

This season is easier than DF S1 for me.

I want people not to lie about their experience when claiming things.

The failure state for tank is usually a bricked key/pugs screeching at them. Failure state for a single bad DPS outside cutting edge keys is “man this dps is bad”, followed by a harder than usual clear.

Combine that with blizzard deciding to revert to Shadowlands s1 levels of squishy tanks, and it’s unsurprising that tanks are reluctant to tank for anyone they don’t know.

2 Likes

I agree with everything you said.

1 Like

agreed. m+ is in the worst state i have ever seen it since it was released in legion. between the tank changes that is now making tanks seem impossible to find vs before and the changes on the gear drops and vaults from m+, so many people didnt even bother getting this xpac and the rest that did just silently quit. as for the remainder they are all already settled in guilds and groups and dont mind that sort of thing. but lets face it, there are 10x more people that just always pugged m+ than did actual group / guild runs. thats just the way it is this day and age.

if blizzard reverted the changes just on the m+ loot track to how they were before aka 8’s for mythic track vault, i can guarantee the game subs would double within a week.

1 Like

At the time I’m writing this, it’s peak confirmation bias. Blizzard raised the bar to entry for M+ significantly with DF S4. They simultaneously added alternative ways for players to reach the new bar, but those alternative ways are distinct from M+. Using the comparison of M+ participation numbers a week and a half into the season to previous seasons where the bar was lower and there were no alternatives as justification that M+ wasn’t nearly as popular is frankly disingenuous.

To make sure it’s clear, I am not saying there isn’t any truth in what was said here. There are certainly players who used to run M+ who prefer delves and/or harder heroic/M0 dungeons that won’t come back. And that’s genuinely a good thing for them to have that alternative.

It’s just there are also going to be some number of players who like M+ and will still run M+, but in previous seasons would be running keys below a +12 by this point int he season and thus aren’t even touching M+ yet. We really need to wait until we see numbers later in the season to make this kind of conclusion.

2 Likes

Naa, 603 gear from Delves plus an easy upgrade path made many leap frog M+ keys in the 1-5 range.

Because you can do a delve instead without having to bother with randoms.
There are people entering and leaving delves constantly, like a non-stop flow on every given shard. Good tanks are still strong but mid tanks would rather do a delve than get yelled at for wiping the group again.

1 Like

Timed 45 minute baron runs at the end of vanilla. While not super endgame because it was added to upgrade dungeon gear for people who didn’t raid or some were op enough for raiding, it was post 60 coordinated content and in my mind that classifies it as endgame content.

Sanctioned speed runs specifically put in as a challenge by Blizzard.

As a mid tank I endorse this comment.

2 Likes

I think bliz (aka microsoft) should take a moment to notice nearly 600 comments on this thread means you’re right…

2 Likes