I actually like Anduin, but with how the Alliance has been turned into support for the Horde, with the Horde being the ones with the spotlight on them the most, we need A LOT more Alliance focus. And if it shows Anduin becoming an even better person, I’m all for that. But I think we’re getting off-topic now sadly. This was supposed to be about 2h Frost anyway.
Varian was forced to learn the horde ways, by now he would have known a show a strength is needed. Talking only goes so far.
annihlation is the only way to achieve peace. Through the shadow of a mana bomb ofcorse.
if the horde won the war… sylvanis kept her lip shut ( plot reasons she said horde is nothing lel ) we could have absorbed the alliance into the horde ranks.
I don’t see how it’s still going on. It’s like every other expansion it’s some world ending scenario where the horde and alliance have to work together anyways.
I do agree this is supposed to be about getting 2h frost back in a way that makes people happy. Now given how another class had a 2h/dw spec before legion. I did like how monks were balanced. DW was faster which led to smaller damage numbers but more attacks. 2h was less attacks but bigger numbers. This worked for monks. I saw ww monks using dw and 2h.
As for the runes I liked Kelliste’s idea combine Razorice and Fallen Crusader. Make a rune that applys the effect of Razorice and has the proc of Fallen Crusader. That way 2h frost get both runes.
From my experience and what I saw on the server I was on most monks did use both types of weapons. Some only dw and some only used 2h but it worked. They were pretty balanced.
And on this subject again this is just me when we apply runes to a weapon I wish the weapon would display the runes. Or make weapons that only dk’s could use and give them the type of Runed weapons.
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Well I do believe that at one point Blizzard was going to try to merge the two factions. So there could be no claim of faction bias. of course there will still be bg’s and what not but it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they had done that.
And I am going to say it but there is ways for blizzard to open up subspecs. For example. I know some people were and are asking for unholy to be a ranged spec. They could easily do that just at the top of the talent tree give us a button to click that makes it go from melee to ranged. Adjust the range of the abilites keep them using melee weapons and there you go. Dk’s now have the option to be melee or ranged.
There is a lot they could do if they wanted to. I know in the paladin forums there are people who want a ranged dps spec for paladins and a dw spec it could be done like I have referenced above. Hell they could do that with all 3 dk specs. Give all 3 dw and 2h. And give blood the option to dps or tank.
maybe shadowlands will bring it up but death brings everyone together. rich to poor all have to die.
so maybe we can hold ghost hands in the shadowlands?
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I think Rift got rid of their factions, well not completely. There just wasn’t a point to it. Bg’s were just you are put on a side and that’s your team. You could be put in a team with someone that just deleted you at every chance the previous bg.
Now that’s a game that had choice with builds even if the build wasn’t the best. Like the necromancer, but I has success with it. If your pet crit, you would get an instant primary spell, if you crit you made your pet crit which gave you that instant. And you possessed your pet and some other stuff. It was pretty fun and that isn’t the extent to it.
But factions are just getting old and really not needed anymore. Bgs could just be looked at as games to keep up the skill that the wars provided. It’s these wars that allow us to beat people like the LK, deathwing, old gods and titans.
My ways to fix dk’s.
First - give all 3 specs dw-2h. Balance them using the monk system as mentioned.
Second - give unholy the option to be ranged as what some people want. Turn the ranged unholy into a true necromancy spec.
Third - this one is purely aesthetics make it so when runes were applied to weapons they actually show up on the weapon. Or create a class of weapon called Rune Weapons. Something that only DKs can use. Or make it so that when they get a weapon its instantly converted into a rune weapon and given its own skin to do this.
Fourth - On the legion class mount take off the gd hooked tail that just looks so freaking stupid. Keep or remove the coffin I am meh on it I know some people hate it. (again aesthetics)
Fifth - Either fix our movement problem or make us the slow hard hitting juggernaut we are supposed to be. Keeping us slow while or damage is what it is, is just wrong.
Sixth - If we are dead why do we have a breath bar while we are underwater? I mean really WTH.
Seventh - Some People hate long list this one is just for those people 
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I think it’s just going to be a syl and jailer expansion. I don’t even think dk’s are going to play much of a role other than possibly Maldraxxus. We have to deal with the scourge before anything anyways and if the numbers are reduced enough the threat might be so small it’s just a pest problem so no real need for a LK. Bolvar might just end up being some sort of guide. Seems like he lost knowledge on how to fight anyways.
Syl will just most likely be killed by the jailer since she served her purpose, or any number of alliance or horde she betrayed. Bolvar has as much reason to kill her as bwomsandi or whatever the loa of death is called, none. All she did to him was break a helm. It’s not like Bolvar couldn’t rejoin the alliance.
But remember how the alliance normally react to the undead. Wait is Bolvar even dead? I mean he was the LK to keep the undead from mindlessly storming across the planet…
I do not know but I do not think the Alliance or Horde would be to Keen to trust him as he was the Lich King. Even if he did not move or do anything while he was.
And wait didn’t he ask for the helm to be put on him that he was going to die without it so he said to put it on him so he could control the undead?
The ICC mounts are 100 times better than the dk class mounts.
Rune weapons would be interesting but the explanation is we make anything a rune weapon through the rune forge, and it would be a huge undertaking to create new visuals for all the weapons we can use. Tacking on some runes might look… tacky. I guess rune weapon options like demon hunters and their glaives would be the best solution with that.
Unholy is boarderline ranged as is, the only real thing it lacks is a ranged wounds builder. Claw of Shadows would probably just need a spell visual and there is a ranged option.
We were never meant to be juggernauts. That’s a recent idea. We were supposed to be anti mobility killing machines. I think the new dev team idea is that death and juggernauts are similar. You can’t run forever, it’s always coming at you, but it’s not really how the death knight were modeled initially.
And according to Bolvar he never died. He was on deaths doorstep and then was kept alive by the dragons flame. Arthas LK tortured him, but he never died. The LK is classified as undead, but unless there is already a Lich King when you put the helm on it doesn’t kill you. He never touched Frostmourne. So unless something else happened, he’s not dead or undead. Just a crispy paladin.
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If i am remembering correctly. At the end of wrath he said he was about to die and that he would sacrifice himself to control the undead. What has happened to dk lore and with the changing of crap makes things hard to follow at times. Even more so as I never played warcraft 1-3 nor have I been able to afforde to buy the books and comics on wow. All my lore knowledge comes from whats in the game. And what I can find on lore youtube channels.
I wish they had done a Warcraft 1-3 reforge so I could play them.
I would like the option to use all mount colors, no matter what spec you are. Like with Paladins. But for the Breath mechanic, we need that one explained of course. My guess is that it was for gameplay purposes, but there needs to be in-lore justification for that still.
He didn’t say he was going to die just that he couldn’t walk in the land of the living because he seen himself as an abomination. Bolvar and saurfang fought together at the wrathgate, the only difference is one had the protection of the light. Saurfang was raised as a dk champion, Bolvar was tortured and experimented on. If he died why would Arthas not just raise him?
I have Warcraft 3 and the strategy guide. Haven’t read it to see if any lore stuff is in it though.
Well the undead being raised as DKs I can understand. But the whole DKs are undead but yet we still have to breathe is something blizzard needs to address.
But back to the point. If Blizzard is all about PLAYER AGENCY then there are a few things they need to revert back to or bring back. 2h Frost is one. Blood dps and dw for blood and unholy is another.
It can be done. It should be done. With the exception of a few (not pointing fingers at anyone) most want 2h frost to come back. Again keyword is MOST. And for those that want dw it should not be removed.
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I agree the model for the class mount is close to the icc. Why did they have to add the gd hook on the tail that is just one of the most stupidest things I have seen. It reminds me of the hooks jet fighters have to catch cables as they are landing on an air craft carrier. That on a class mount is just…
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Most of the discussion early on in this thread was entirely about the justifications people were using, and not if it should or shouldn’t come back. There were some, me included saying how it shouldn’t come back like with motfw because the split caused problems, but people were trying to justify it as 2h was better and always hit harder and everyone played it which were all just false.
Like back in wrath no one really made guides talking about options it was “this is best here are sims and a breakdown” and you just copied it.
Most people don’t want a balance nightmare so if 2h being brought back means it’s a nightmare again then I would definitely say leave it out. That’s exactly why I have said “here are the overall differences between the 2 weapons” and attempted to resolve those issues so there isn’t this big gap that you would have to try to make up.
Right now the gap if weapon restrictions were removed, really razorice is the biggest damage difference. How damage is calculated is well within reason it’s just that other than obliterate, everything is frost and razorice being gone from 2h is a HUGE dps and overall damage loss.
The dps right now when looking at logs is not bad and is up there with havoc and fury. Unholy is behind except for high add count fights and 2h would probably be worse than unholy.
Blizzard has a habit of removing things that just perform worse. Hybrid specs like permanent pet blood were all removed in Cata, useless runes or underperforming runes were removed, all sub specs were removed, abilities that seen hardly any use were removed.
DW unholy was a bug and never intended, and DW even when there was the option underperformed. All these changes were pretty much done for the sake of bad and new players so they wouldn’t nerf themselves.
I know it’s a lot to read, but there is hardly anyone that is against 2h. At this point, Blizzard is either going to do it or not. They have more than enough information to do it unless there is another reason they aren’t adding it. They might just want DW to always be better than 2h and can’t find a good way to do it while keeping the dps close. They don’t like to communicate so who knows.
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Ok, you’re going to have to resfresh my memory here, was there anyone other than Dreadmoore who was honest to God arguing that 2H was better than DW in regard to performance? Half of all these threads just devolve into the two of you vomiting the same arguments at each other.
As for Bolvar I never understood why people thought he was great. Sure, he was a paladin, but I’ve run into a lot of terrible paladins over the years. As far as I’m aware his accomplishments are getting mind controlled by a dragon and not quite dying.
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