It's time.. Frost DK and 2 handed weapons

If i check your wow armory and see that you quite literally sit at 425 and under with no mythic kills or no arenas played, Im just going to laugh at any and everything you have to say. Imagine arguing so fervently for duel wield to remain the primary playstyle of frost despite the very obvious flaws and imperfections in the gameplay. I mean ever since legion frost has seen almost nothing but just flat out buffs because duel wield has been failing the spec for years now. Started in legion, Still continues to have massive problems even in BFA.

Make the spec 2handed already the excuses are becoming tiresome and these same braindead dks that argue on every thread even though they have 0 mythic kills and 0 pvp achievements is also getting tiresome

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The beginning meaning launch, not beta or even alpha.

The entire point being DW or in this case nerves of cold steel which increases off hand damage, was in the game at launch and in the frost tree. When ToT was introduced most likely because DW overall wasn’t performing comparatively, was put in the frost tree most likely because that is where the other DW talent was. It wouldn’t make too much sense to put it in other specs.

This locked it in for the future. I don’t really care what happened when the class was in development, things were probably created and taken away when they were working stuff out. The ability to DW is a class feature sure, but if it doesn’t perform it’s not really worth taking.

How exactly is it the fault of the weapon? And how would 2h fix the issues right now? In fact isn’t frost performing relatively well even in Legion?

If you say weapon damage which has already been debunked then you have no argument at all. So what will 2h accomplish?

That’s the thing. it wouldn’t fix anything unless blizz makes fundamental changes to frost in general >_<

Picking up the point, return the 2H frost DK!

Frost in the heart, frost in the veins, frost in the eyes, frost in the mind, frost in me hand! frost in my big “RAINBOW” 2H axe!!

fear the frost, fear the slow, fear the hit of my Armageddon frozen sword.

Sorry, i post this again whit a correction so the forum don’t delete it again. :stuck_out_tongue:

Exactly, if people understood the spec (if I don’t play and understand it then there is no excuse for people who play not to understand it). 2h would fix absolutely nothing and it wouldn’t bring back the big obliterate crits like people want.

Is they will do makes “fundamental changes to frost in general” they could return the 2H option and let frost return to be 2H / DW to suit the player. :smiley:

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i will not just read that but i will quote him

I personally want 2H because I want to see those large numbers that I once saw in the DK, I like the burst classes and the DK was one of them in its time, to this day the DK is a kind of damage sustained in the 2 specs. They have their “burst” but it is horrible, a lot of unintelligible small numbers that overload the screen for nothing, I want the purity of a good simple and well placed large number to return

nowhere he said this will fix the spec, its just his preference for the playstyle

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But every spec WAS given the option to dw. We needed hit and expertise back then. Even with ToT the hit and expertise cap was higher than running a 2 hander and reforging was absolutely needed to keep your precious toothpicks viable…so argue all you want. The death knight was created as a hero class. It brought open play and very little class restriction. Dw and 2 hand. Tank and dps. You could still dw blood and unholy in mop. Why was that still available to blood and unholy at that point if frost was the dw spec with Tot? Dont tell me viable or recommended bs. Tired of hearing it. Serious player vs casual is where that makes a difference. I dw tanked in mop as blood. I never got kicked. 1 person always had to say something right off the bat. But 4 and 5 pulls in everything was peachy due to the way death strike worked and blood boil spam i only focused on mastery. See you forget that while there will always be an optimal build for every single spec per class not 100% of the player base will follow that build and get bis. Casuals with limited time and responsibilities are just going to enjoy the game time they have. Not to mention anyone that has free will and doesnt appreciate a gang of people telling him or her to run this build and talents or gtfo. I take the gtfo option. The ever increasing adhd players cant except anything outside the norm. A person with a brain can mix and match stats, gear and have a little fun and retain some dignity while enjoying playing their class. Thats where blizzard is losing. Dumbing down classes for simplicity but its not appealing for newcomers because the flavor has been lost. Remember when dks came along that was way before the pruning. We had loads of spells and abilities. Not the downtime like we have today. So keep arguing your Tot garbage. Frost was also given Motfw. Why didnt blood and unholy have that? Did it occur to you that Tot and Motfw is where frosts problems started?

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Which would fix the spec for him right? This isnt rocket science and you are just going into technicalities and semantics. He has something that he wants to see, large hits in the form of Obliterate since that is the only thing 2h granted large hits too, and he thinks that 2h would FIX THAT PROBLEM. In turn fixing the spec.

It’s difficult to make this argument when dual-wielding was outright broken for Unholy twice in Wrath. They made a very clear stance on that spec specifically not being dual-wield. Blood never saw any viable dual-wielding use. Frost had additional dual-wield support added. Looking at the actual context, only one spec had any intention to dual-wield. To say that the “option” existed is no different than saying that the option exists to equip cloth, therefore it was clearly intentional and should continue to be supported.

The dual-wield penalty only affected your chance to miss, aka Hit rating, not Expertise and your chance to be Dodged or Parried.

That’s called design. They designed Runeforges to support the use of dual-wield, and make it a superior option by the very mechanics of the spec.

Warriors could, and still can equip Daggers and Staves. Why can they do that if they aren’t in any way designed to use them, and there is zero spec support to do so? That must mean it’s secretly supported, I guess. Prot and Arms could dual-wield to their detriment just like Blood or Unholy. Again, not every “look what I can do! option” is actually intended for use or part of the fantasy. Viable absolutely plays into what was intended by the dev’s design. It doesn’t matter if you’re tired of hearing it, it’s the fact of the matter.

Gee, it’s almost like Blood and Unholy were never meant to dual-wield, and that’s why those specs never got weapon differentiation talents/abilities. Shocker.

But yes, not only do we know that the addition of splitting the playstyles with ToT/MotFW was a problem, it’s been a mainstay of our argument on why that kind of thing specifically shouldn’t come back. Weird that we finally got around to agreeing on that point.

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Break up your post into separate issues. It makes it easier to read.

Yes, every spec technically had the option. Having the option doesnt make it right or good. You can technically eat a steak with a spoon, but that does not mean that you should.

Reforging did not keep DW viable. Reforging helped each and every spec the same. It was so that you could use items that might otherwise be sold or sharded because it had 1 good stat for you and you could reforge the other stat into something more useful. What you said regarding that is just utterly false and its just grasping at anything you can think of to show your hate for DW, you know the way you keep calling them toothpicks yet those toothpicks have a history of doing better dps and scaling better.

Yes, it was a hero class, its not anymore.

It did have more options back then, sure, but things were also balanced with certain things in mind and everything else was secondary.

You could DW Blood and Unholy, but that doesnt mean you “should”. You can eat a steak with a spoon, but that doesnt mean its a good idea. I never ran into blood players that DW, or even Unholy for that matter unless there was something in that spec that DW could abuse that wasnt intended.

And yes, viability. Tired of hearing it then do what you guys have been doing and dont read my post, in fact I havent even been talking about viability. Just that someone in support of 2h says something that is just false and I call that information out. Most people that like 2h, is from the MoP era when it became FoTM for 2 shotting people.

Blood almost always focused on mastery because that is its active mitigation and it plays well with the kit. You also seem to forget that tank dps is taken into account when balancing comes into play. Who cares about random heroics that you overgear and can DW in… wow.

And those players will not be in the running for groups trying to progress through content unless that group doesnt know better. I dont play BoS because I dont like it, but I was also not trying to get into groups or anything like that. I was doing content where it just didnt matter. If people want to stay in that content range, fine, but if you want to actually progress groups usually want you to apply yourself and not care about “wah i dont get muh 2h”. They really dont care about that. Either step off or gtfo.

Casuals have limited time to play, and they usually make the most out of that time and they dont want to make their gameplay harder. If they want to clear content in the limited time they have to play, then they should be doing it to the best of their abilities, or at least showing an attempt, of they can gtfo.

Bye, I really dont care about someones feelings when me and other players are trying to our best (if I want to progress and clear content) and here comes Joe not stepping up to the plate like everyone else. Bye Joe.

ADHD serves no purpose but to insult players that are actually trying to progress and expect the same from others. Making your entire argument which is just insults and “we COULD do this, we COULD do that” useless.

Well, that person can have fun not in my group. You are not entitled to anything when you are playing with others. There is a standard that should be met by anyone. Play how you want outside of progression, otherwise again, gtfo.

Newcomers wouldnt know that the classes have been simplified, its not appealing to veterans that know they have been simplified and that the specs are shadows of what they once were.

MotFW was put in place because of the dps difference between 2h and DW, and it was a failure of a band aid.

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They said reforge, not runeforge. Reforging just allowed any spec and class to use what they got by reforging the useless stat into something better. Granted you usually had to completely reforge your entire gear set, but that is what it was for.

I assumed that was just a typo, since reforging didn’t do anything to prop dual-wield up in the way their statement suggested.

Either way, reforging didnt prop it up and runeforging actually pushed it ahead. Its just a false statement either way you look at it.

did he said that? no he didn’t, you are assuming.

even so, its his preference, for him

if it will fix for him, then your babbling of “it will not fix the spec!11!” make no damn sense.

i mean, you are making thing up assuming things by other comments so?

Again, no, you are assuming, he want the big crits because its his preference in the play style, he never said this will fix the spec, or fix the spec problems, you are making things up to accommodate in your narrative, of “people ask for 2H because they think it will fix the spec” and no one said that, you just assumed from someone else comment

haha :rofl:

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I think bringing 2 handed frost back would be nice - if nothing else to free up more tanks. As a former Blood Tank main I despise that I need to farm up 2 one handers to solo content at anything other then a…glacial pace.

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Here is some hands-on work to break the monotony of talking. Ice Cap vs Breath of Sindragosa and messing around with the damage numbers between 2H and 1H.

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Could you expand a bit on the purpose of the videos here? I’m not sure I understand what they’re useful for?

There were some arguments being made for BoS being the best talent choice, and mechanics testing video was to give a visual on how Frost damage is determined, as opposed to people just going back and forth about it. It’s not arguing for any side of anything either. These are the numbers in one, single scenario. The combat logs don’t lie. And it’s just nice to have visuals in general from time to time. The talking and talking gets boring.

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