Didn’t you ever try the Unholy duel wiled before it was nerfed? It was OP AF for a time, plenty of people thought it was as a smart option, or at the very least the Over Powered option…
Are you talking about the sudden doom bug that was fixed within a week? If so no I didn’t. With so many people abusing it I knew it wasn’t going to last. Plus I never could play unholy aside from solo content so why bother?
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and no one ever said “i want the big obliterate crits because it will finally fix the spec” you re making things up
we could have the big crits and the spec would be the same or worse.
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I also don’t know what beta has to do with anything other than to suit your narrative. Beta is a developmental and testing phase, I bet other things weren’t in it either. This is the case of moving the goal post.
Sometimes however things don’t always work out 100% right out of beta, I’m sure people simmed and tried DW anything with nerves of cold steel and concluded it just wasn’t enough. All that ToT even did when it was introduced from its inception to MoP was allow both weapons to be used with certain weapon strikes.
The very fact that it was added to frost and pretty deep in the tree should be an indication of what they wanted the spec to be. Why not give it to blood? Even though it housed 2h weapon specialization and wouldn’t synergize well. Why not in unholy which a lot of that spec relied on weapon damage like the shadow damage on auto attack talent.
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Look back at what you quoted from me and get back to me when you understand what that means.
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well i sure dont want my spec worse if 2h comes back just to look cool
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I think the difference between you and I is you look at this form a PvE standpoint (which is fine) when most of my experience was from a PvP one. Heck yes the Sudden Doom proc was a lot of fun while it lasted. (And I could be wrong here, but I believe it lasted a little longer than a week) The same way the Ret Pally Buff in BC was broken, (where you could pop bubble and wings at the same time) at the time I had a lot of fun with it in PvP just like I did with UH DW.
I’m not trying to fit a narrative, you said I was “Wrong” however technically I’m not wrong at all. I was only trying to prove a point that DW wasn’t meant just for Frost “from the beginning” like what keeps being said. That’s only true if you define your beginning after WotLK beta (which is also fine) I’m just pointing out a fact that there was a time when DK DW wasn’t just Frost but any of the 3 specs could play it. I felt like the Devs took an Eenie meenie mighty mow approach when choosing Frost to put Nerves of Cold Steel in the game back then, then they just built around it from there.
They put that talent at the top of the Frost Tree and you could easily build around it and customize your Duel Wielding DK around that with any of the 3 specs (Frost, Blood, Or Unholy)
Anyway I understand these are all semantics and technicalities and ultimately the Devs chose to build DW around Frost but that wasn’t always the way…they had to start somewhere and in the true beginning of it all, all 3 specs were meant to be able to DW originally. (Before they changed their minds)
Anyway I hope that makes sense to you. If not, it’s cool. I do appreciate the mature conversations that you and I have been able to have on this topic regardless if we agree or disagree. (I wish others could do the same) So anyway Thank you for that.
That’s correct. I made a post about my name change in a different 2H Frost thread.
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I thought so, I remember seeing that now. You’ll always be Victor to me though 
Have a good day man
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You’re correct sir, DW or not it definitely under preforms at the moment. Hopefully we will see some positive things for Frost soon. But knowing Blizzard, I’m not holding my breath.
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BFA, for sure. Maybe a hotfix or two for band aids but I am optimistic for SL. The “unpruning” as they call it, imo is a nice start. At least we know blizz is aware. They ended the endless AP grind in 8.3, so maybe they really are starting to listen to the players.
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If I remember correctly “ToT (allows) Off hand damage to do more with plague strike obliterate and death strike blood strike and few other strikes.” Where does it say it’s a talent to allow Dw? It doesn’t. You can Dw without the talent back then.
I agree with you. Fingers Crossed for Shadowlands! And yes I’m hopeful for the Devs listening to player feedback. But I’m not holding my breath… time will tell I suppose.
he literally just said he want big number on the crits, nowhere he said this will fix the spec.
its blizzard, it will be bad regardless of the weapon, are you new?
Exactly! Very well said!
Idealy, I wish Blizz would give the weapon sub specs another go, and change our mastery to something more interesting other than x% more frost damage, which is boring and one of the reasons 2h got axed in the first place.
However, I would be 1000% okay with just a mog option. The animations arent really a big deal as all the 2h specs share swing animations (fair bit of 1h are shared with 2h as well) so they would just have to add the frost particle effects to those swings.
Yes, I take my standpoint from a pie perspective and people were abusing the bug in pvp. It doesn’t matter how fun something might be if it isn’t intended.
For your other point, how far do you want to go back? Launch is official. Do you want to go back to TBC and say DKs shouldn’t exist because they weren’t in the game then? I use launch because it is the release and not a rest phase when they are still working on everything and not everyone and anyone was allowed on the beta back then because they didn’t use it as a marketing ploy. It was for testing.
Not every spec was meant to be DW. Blood and unholy both performed better with 2h, having the ability to do something doesn’t really mean anything if specs don’t perform.
Look at it this way, each spec did have the option to equip DW and play, but strikes were only done with the main hand. So where would the viability be?
Read it again.
Because without it strike damage is lower and not worth it. ToT brings it in line and if you want blood or unholy to DW that ability needs to be present. Remember the player base also has a say in what is and isn’t viable by not taking people.
The point was, you and others have said DW was intended for Frost DKs since the beginning. I was merely pointing out that isn’t entirely true. There was a time when it was intended for all 3 specs.
As I stated previously I’m aware we are arguing over semantics and technicalities at this point. However I was just trying to show you that at some point in the history of the class DW was intended as a weapon choice (as was 2H) for the Death Knight class as a whole, not just Frost. (Before Blizzard changes their minds and started directing it towards Frost)
Anyway thanks for your feedback.
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