It's time.. Frost DK and 2 handed weapons

Classes Death Knight
217

No possible arguments to support dual wield over 2h?

Dont make me laugh. If you want to leave out lore, fine, but that still leaves how the spec was designed since wrath and damage output. It was designed as a DW spec and it alone held the DW talents for the death knight class. The damage output was also higher aside from 1 point in WoD where Blizzard screwed up design and balance even after they were warned.

In Wrath DW did more damage even without str weapons and hit just as hard as Blood did which was a 2h spec. Cata, DW again came out ahead in terms of damage and was the start of the end for 2h. MoP, again DW was superior and the playstyles became more split unlike in wrath where they were the same and you just picked your weapon, even if 2h had at the very least 15% less damage than DW. WoD was the death nail with the 25% downtime driving up the damage each ability had to do which when combined with the obliterate buff for 2h it was doing way too much damage and was nerfed maybe 2-3 weeks into the expansion and since that point on DW was ahead and scaled better.

The only argument for 2h is “I want to use a 2h” which again, is perfectly valid.

My argument is not just lore based, but mechanics and damage output based. In terms of mechanics, DW has an extra Runeforge, has more crit rolls due to the extra weapon and more killing machine procs. You can argue that it wasnt how it used to be, which I agree.

Ill leave you with a little fun fact too, the playstyle that you 2h supporters are so fond of, was how DW played as well. Only when they started to make the playstyle distinct from each other is when the death of 2h began. In wrath all that you had to do basically was keep your diseases up, convert blood runes to death runes, use rime procs and then pump out as much obliterates and frost strikes as you could before you had to refresh your diseases.

2h supporters are the vocal minority and for some reason they think the playstyle now is because of DW which it isnt, its because of poor development. Just look at how bad of a design Killing Machine is to see just how bad the spec is designed.

2 Likes
218

SIGNED !!!
100 times signed!
Please, pretty please, pretty please with a cherry on top…wat do we have to say to make this happen.
Its beyond silly that the spec names for the weapon the lich kind carried cannot use the 2H weapons in its name.

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219

That’s something I’ve never understood about Blizzard’s design choices. Why are melee specs locked into a specific type of weapon. Unholy 2-Hand, Frost 1-Hand dual wield, Wind Walker 1-Hand dual wield, Arms 2-Hand, etc…

I get they’ve tuned certain abilities with weapons damage but doing that always seemed like a weird thing to do. Why can’t WindWalker occasionally whack something with a long stick?!

Anyway, I agree, readjust abilities to scale based on power, not weapon damage, Frost needs to hack things with a big icy Frostmorne!!!

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Windwalker was able to use staffs before Legion. That was removed. A martial artist that uses glorified brass knuckles and specifically not a staff. One of the reasons I don’t main WW, nor play it anymore.

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221

You’re ignorant. The spec wasnt specifically designed for duel wield or 2handed. Also the only reason duel wield pulled ahead was simply because of how things were tuned not because of any inherent flaws of simply using a 2 handed weapon. Frost hasnt ever been designed well and even despite being duel wield exclusively now it still isnt designed well and has huge issues.

For practical reasons you want 2handed to come back. Thats one less weapon slot you have to farm and you shouldnt be concerned about any tuning issues because thats easily bandaged as we’ve seen so far

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222

Learn the lore. Frostmourne had nothing to do with ice but stealing the souls of those that it cut down. The demons who created it even had to make themselves immune to it while making it.

What do you have to do to get a 2h weapon? Ask for the spec to be exactly like DW combine the runeforges that DW uses into one runeforge and then you can have 2h back even though it will still be behind DW through mechanics that really can’t be balanced unless you try to separate the 2 playstyles but then you get back into the reason why it was removed in the first place.

2h will be behind but if people don’t care then I say let people.

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It was designed and tuned for DW, I really don’t know why you guys can’t understand that unless you are somewhat new to the class. It had been DW since wrath.

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Don’t bother responding to this guy. He just reiterates that DK was made for DW and DW was better or something like that. I read his profile and this guy has nothing but run Alterac Valley his whole WoW career. He’s 346 item level and hasn’t seen a Mythic Dungeon or Normal Raid in his life.

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225

None of that discredits the actual arguments that Kelliste puts forth. Do try to stay on topic, and not mud sling for lack of a true response.

226

Researching a person trying to lecture me on a subject and calling them out on them not having adequate experience on said subject is not mudslinging and is very much related to this topic. It’s called him being full of BS. Do try and pay more attention to what people write in their posts, and not make random, unsubstantiated, emotionally-charged accusations of mud-slinging for lack of a true response.

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227

Im in favor of only having to get one weapon upgrade ever again. Make 2h baseline across all specs. Just allow us to transmog our 2h into 2x 1h’s

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Except that you aren’t researching a person, you’re only looking at a single character, and what you see on that character sheet is not inherently indicative as the sum of their knowledge, and in fact, generally isn’t. It is mudslinging because you are not addressing the topic actually being discussed, and are instead attempting character assassination to discredit them in spite of their arguments, rather than addressing those arguments - that is the literal definition of mudslinging. But please, tell me more about how this was an “unsubstantiated and emotionally charged” accusation. I do enjoy story time.

Like I said the first time, stick to the actual arguments being made, and not these personal attacks.

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229

The fact DKs never got straight up frostmourne as their frost artifact in legion just because blizzard wanted to shove duel weild down their throats is criminal.

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This “argument” against two handed frost you’re making is you purely pulling at strings from years ago, sure it may not be appealing for you to swap to a two hander from a performance perspective and you may hate me saying this but World of Warcraft is more than how many numbers you can make flash on your screen, otherwise everyone would be playing fire mages or whatever the top dps spec is nowadays. Many things need to be looked at to make two handed frost viable, almost a complete overhaul and I can respect that because i’m open to my spec being adjusted, not restricted.

Now on to the thing that really stands out, you’re in a thread where 99% of people are in support of two handed frost so this VOCAL MINORITY you’re claiming doesn’t exist, plus THIS ISN’T EVEN THE ONLY THREAD ABOUT 2 HANDED FROST.

You don’t have a valid argument and i’ll say it again:

There is no possible argument to support dual wield OVER two-handed.

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231

Because I have seen your likes and comments in previous posts and you are one of the people that support the absolute decisions made by Acti-Blizzard, like removing 2H Frost and forcing us to use cold crab shanks. I am beginning to think you are this other guy’s alt on a classic account because you make proportionally similar arg-, excuse me, talking points that he does. You heavily oppose 2H Frost and take every opportunity to try and shut down anybody that says anything remotely supporting of it. I am beginning to become convinced that you and others of a similar mind are Blizzard devs that got triggered by the community forums and just couldn’t hold it in.

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232

With the new datamined weapons only beeing 2h weapons i sure am getting my hopes up for 2h frost to return. I know it doesnt have to mean a damn thing but one can dream. It just FEELS more right with a 2h for me personally. Hopefully a solution can be made for both the 2h- and dw - fans

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233

Oh please with the lore argument they change that at will anymore, and it has nothing to do with the point hat the words, “frost” mourne are right there and “ice” crown etc… Frost should have always been the 2H spec, not UH.

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234

Wow… just how empty are you? You clearly havent read anything and I also gave a perfectly good reason why you support dual wield over 2h mechanically which you said you were talking about mechanics. Now that I brought out the reasoning now you want to change to “well we should have options” which again, I agree with.

The thing that you guys clearly dont understand is I dont agree in HOW you want to go about doing it. I know the reason why it was removed, stated the reasoning, and you guys want to go back to that split spec. It just wont happen.

Its easy to move the goal post, but my argument or position hasnt changed and just like people, you think there are only 2 sides to this, pro or anti 2h.

You also do know that there is a small number of Frost Dk’s compared to other classes right? There was only roughly 8000 parses for Frost Dk’s for raid logs in The Eternal Palace. They were still 5th on overall dps, that is if I am reading the chart correctly. Other classes up in the 20,000-40,000 parses. So you have a small number to work with, then you have a quite small number of threads about 2h frost comparatively, and the people in those threads overlap but its a majority? Yeahhhh sure it is.

These 2h threads are full of uninformed people. Talking about frostmourne and thats what the spec was named after which is wrong, that DW was only viable when masterfrost became a thing which is wrong as well. Saying that the obliterate type of play is the 2h style, which a more accurate claim would be, its the original playstyle which wasnt exclusive to 2h.

It is so clear that when they split the playstyles to make each one distinctive of each other that caused 2h to die. There was nothing back when the spec was introduced that brought up this 2h vs DW crap. They played the same and the only real thing that impacted them was DW had more KM procs and 15% more frost damage. There wasnt even really that big of a gap between the specs in terms of weapon strikes and DW didnt have access to str dps weapons because they didnt exist.

So there is an argument to be had, you just dont like it. Mechanics and trying to split the spec is the argument, but you dont want them to have the same playstyle. I dont like the playstyle now, why do you think I quit Dec 8th? The only reason why I renewed was to try out classic to see if the hype was true. But just like you, they changed their argument. Back in beta with the 1.12 patch they were talking about how hard it was, that 2 mobs would kill you and all this. Then live hit, people were playing correctly based on hit mechanics and it all became just an easy thoughtless grind. So what happened? They said “oh 1.12 was the easy patch” even though they were having trouble with that same exact patch in the beta and used that to hype up the game.

Pulling at strings lol, thats funny. You make a statement but like that but dont support it, good one.

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235

Are you talking about me being this persons alt? No, im not. In fact I created a warlock on Classic, the first class I ever rolled, and got the same name I did back in Wrath. But if you want to pull that logic, you are just an alt to all these other people, liking your own posts.

Again, this person has liked many of my posts where I support bringing back 2h, its just not the way that YOU want it to be brought back. You also attacked my character on another thread, where I havent played since December of last year, I havent pvp’ed since 2016, you said that I did AV the most which so have you, and you said that Frost was in a DPS spot that it just isnt in. You are also using a sub par build, using Frostscythe but you have Razorice on the offhand when it should be on the mainhand. You complained about there not being any hard hitting abilities yet you use Obliteration when you should be using BoS if you want to push DPS, you are also using Murderous Efficiency with only 15% crit and the minimum crit rating should be 20% because of how Killing Machine works now.

My talents arent even the best, one reason I dont like BoS, but again im not complaining about damage numbers when frost dk dps isnt bad like you claimed it was. The spec at its core is a mess, maybe try fixing that first before you try to introduce mechanics for 2h which is the entire reason it was removed.

Fix the spec that would work with both 2h and DW, and make it just a weapon choice. I really dont know why you are so opposed to it or think people are against it when they are giving solutions to bring back 2h.

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236

So immediately after accusing someone else of “unsubstantiated accusations,” you thought it was a good idea to dive into a conspiracy theory about someone posting on two characters, and that they’re really just an angry developer? Really thought that one through, didn’t ya?

Once again, you went the mudslinging route instead of being able to address the actual arguments put forth. Grow up.