"it's not cheating or an exploit, it's a clever use of game mechanics which Blizz tolerates and actually encourages"

[Flozzel-lethon]

Lore needs to move on. He is way past his best before date.

[Nekrage-auchindoun]

I love jealous people. : )

[Nekrage-auchindoun]

A bug is one thing. If you can’t see the difference between an occasional bug and ABUSING A BUG FOR YOUR OWN BENEFIT then you are beyond help.

[Goldenfrieza-kirtonos]

I still think Blizz should have instructed them NOT to take advantage of the bug/exploit, whether Esfand’s group did it by intent or not.

The thing is that if classic is truly designed with the “classic design philosophy” they didn’t actually take advantage of any bug, they were actually disadvantaged by the bug.

Originally the raid reset was created not only to prevent raids from repeatedly farming bosses, but also to allow guilds to come back to a raid to resume progression without having to clear every single boss the next raid. In fact, I think a bit later in other expansions the raid leader was given the option to extend the previous raid reset, which demonstrates the fact that raid resets aren’t always about just preventing loot farming, but also about giving guilds the option to get right to progression.

So if we’re actually being true to the original design philosophy of vanilla, then its a fairly benign act because while they did get a little extra loot, they also lost time on progression.

[Chorachk-deviate-delight]

yes, yes it is

[Vikkturr-sulfuras]

Not only should there be a ban, but also revert their character to level 1 at the starting zone AND delete their money and all progress back to the starting position.

[Chorachk-deviate-delight]

that’s a tad harsh. but ya, removal of the items gained from exploiting.

[Shiyo-grobbulus]

See, this is the thing. People are getting so upset and they dont even know what happened. Esfand went in to FINISH MC. They had only cleared some of MC previously and were on their way to the next boss when they realized the other bosses respawned - the day AFTER. SO they had reason to back into MC to FINISH it. People read headlines and get triggered but refuse to actually look into what happened.

Did he and his raid toss the gear they didn’t deserve, then?

Nah, of course not.

[Bovini-azuresong]

@ Snucka,

I think what Blizzard is getting at is that the difference between ‘a clever use of game mechanics’ and an exploit is whatever they say it is. If they say a streamer isn’t exploiting, there aren’t a lot of options we have to contest it.

i’d rather see all those that actively and repeatedly abused exploits in Classic be banned without distinction, but Blizzard made it obvious years ago in Diablo 3 that the precious Streamers are not to be punished in any way if it can be avoided. Doesn’t matter what they did or what they acquired while doing it, they are to be left unscathed.

I don’t agree with it, but there’s not a lot I can do about it. Diablo 3 is so full of botters and exploit abusers at this point I quit playing it, so I hope the same doesn’t happen in Classic.

[Mushman-skeram]

Hey blizzard,

I don’t care if you ban the two horde guilds on my server that layer farmed dungeons/raids. Remove the items and be done with it. If not, allow the rest of us to layer farm BiS.

Thank you.

[Reece-westfall]

Someone mentioned Esfand’s random MC reset in this thread, which is a pretty clean example of the other end of the spectrum. In that case, they just turned up to raid and the instance had been reset. They didn’t do anything intentional to cause it or go looking for reproduction steps so they could abuse it - in fact, they reported it to us and didn’t continue until they got confirmation that it was out of their control (and that we wouldn’t consider it an exploit if they cleared).

Why in the world wouldn’t you say this was a glitch and to run out and reset the instance as it was intended??? You just said, “Oh go ahead it’s fine.”

WTF Blizzard??

[Brewjitsu-malorne]

So in order to complete MC they had to re-clear bosses they had previously done, but instead of keeping the loot they got through re-clearing, you would have them instead be worse off and only gain those repair bills and lose money on consumables? Hey go clear MC but get no loot and deal with the repair costs. I’m sure you’d jump at that chance to waste your time and lose money just to get to a boss you previously had cleared to.

[Reece-westfall]

See, this is the thing. People are getting so upset and they dont even know what happened. Esfand went in to FINISH MC. They had only cleared some of MC previously and were on their way to the next boss when they realized the other bosses respawned - the day AFTER.

No.

In that case, they just turned up to raid and the instance had been reset.

/10 chars

[Mushman-skeram]

An accidental reset resulting in a few extra peices of loot beyond what should be achieveable in the weekly lock out, not a big deal imo.

Multiple guilds abusing instance layers to speed XP/gear from day 1 until it was hotfixed as is the case on my server (Skeram) is another story.

[Healingmoo-madoran]

Wait another question if im in a group and the leader keeps exploiting a glitch and i ask why something keeps happening and he says “idk it just seems to be how its working” and i know no better does that mean i wont/wouldn’t get banned since idk why and am not the one actually exploiting the glitch and im just there unknowing helping??

[Bovini-azuresong]

Healingmoo, that’s part of the mess Blizzard would have to sort with mass bannings.

On one side of the argument, you would have “If something looks wrong, bail. If you stick around it’s at your risk.”

On the other side of the argument, you would have “I didn’t do it, so it’s not my fault!”

Personally, I would see it that if you stuck around for a while and made use of the situation, despite things looking off, you’re guilty. You should know better. If something like constant respawning of nodes or raid bosses magically reappearing is too good to be legit, it most likely is exactly that.

[Øtaku-pagle]

oh jeez i remember that. thought they phrase was older than that though.

thanks for the information

[Apathy-bigglesworth]

I’m not sure you’re reading either.

The key factor here is intent. Did the player do something with the specific intention of causing a glitch to occur, and did they do it order to exploit said glitch for their own benefit?

Every single exploit is almost always a glitch or a bug that is abused by players with the intention of gaining an advantage.

If you stumbled across a glitch or a bug that gave you an advantage and left it at that, you’re not exploiting.

[Impreza-kelthuzad]

Ummmm do you have trouble with reading comprehension?

[Reece-westfall]

Apparently so. My fault and I apologize.