Lol what.
I don’t even… The ratio is completely different (and not in raiding’s favour).
A +10 at 200 ilvl is equally as difficult and impressive as a +40 at 300 ilvl.
Item level does not matter for us m+ players. Ilvl cap doesn’t matter, and hasn’t mattered.
This and stop making 4 difficulties.
If I’m being honest Mythic raid difficulty is a waste of developer time.
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Ponders how bloated that loot table would look.
It does, because every time it is suggested that maybe rewarding mythic ilvl loot for taking 2hours to fail to time a 15 is inappropriate the amount of REEEEEEing from M+ players is deafening.
5 Likes
You know whats funny about raid trash? Almost all the pugs I’ve been in refuse to kill a single trash mob. Instead they send out 2 tanks and shaman and warlock to basically train the entire raid, die, Rez everyone and use lock gateway to go through certain walls to cheese their way to the bosses. People are doing all that rather than kill a single trash mob.
Get with the program, Blizz. SMH.
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So the goal is to have fewer people playing the game? Are you sure that’s a good thing right now?
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yes but they’ll realize soon enough that ilvl means absolutely nothing as you can see by what I just typed. we could do m+ with absolutely 0 gear on and it would still be a competition to see who could push the highest key. you realize it does not matter whatsoever.
as you actually look into it more, it gets deeper. because everyone who cares about M+ is already in dungeon bis and will be for the rest of the season because this is the main piece of content we play.
How has it done that exactly? The fun thing about raiding is killing the hardest bosses you can with friends. That’s it.
The fun thing about m+ is clearing the highest difficulty you can with friends. That is it.
Gear just helps facilitate it.
That may actually work.
I think that they should seperate the endgames–whatever that may entail–so that people can quit belly-aching about this. It’s been a point of contention with some folks for years and the sides of the argument are never going to fully agree with one-another.
Well Ion seems to think it is. Besides, it’s not like they can’t nerf M+ and buff something else to compensate.
The first time when you progress. After that, it’s farm for loot. And farming raid bosses for your bis is what raiding as always been about.
It’s not fun farming a raid when literally nothing in there can be an upgrade because you were already decked out in easier-to-get M+ loot.
If you are raiding in the same guild, repeat pieces will drop. You have normal, and heroic raid lockouts. You can choose dungeons too. Mythics 0s gives 262 gear.
- Raid Finder: 265-272
- Normal: 278-285
- Heroic: 291-297
- Mythic: 304-311
So you can repeat the raids for all those item levels. The more loot ya get, the more you can pass pieces you dont need to guildies.
Mythic plus is like 3-5 bosses for 1 or 2 people in your group getting gear.
| Keystone Level | End of Dungeon | Great Vault |
|---|---|---|
| 2 | 262 | 278 |
| 3 | 265 | 278 |
| 4 | 268 | 278 |
| 5 | 272 | 281 |
| 6 | 275 | 281 |
| 7 | 275 | 285 |
| 8 | 278 | 288 |
| 9 | 278 | 288 |
| 10 | 281 | 291 |
| 11 | 281 | 294 |
| 12 | 285 | 298 |
| 13 | 285 | 298 |
| 14 | 288 | 301 |
| 15 | 288 | 304 |
If you get ksm and valor farm sure you can get the ilvl after like how many boss kills? Raiding has more loot per bosses. Wheras mythic plus is like a 20-40 minute boss fight.
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Sorry, but you’re just wrong. Completely.
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^ M+ gives 2 pieces of gear per 5 players. Raids give 1 piece of gear per 5 players.
A keystone dungeon run has 3-5 bosses for one- two pieces loot. Raids have bosses at like 5-8 minute fights. 15 the longest mostly for endbosses.
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I don’t see farming for loot as a fun thing but if that’s what you find enjoyable, more power to you.
Farm, for me, is for parsing and other raid shenanigans.
Gearing and properly itemizing your character is just an obstacle. Nothing really enjoyable about it… just something that needs done.
Personally I just want geared and itemized as quickly as possible so that I can ignore it for a couple of months and focus on clearing content with friendos.
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The game can’t go back to players getting an upgrade every other week, it’ll kill it.
If M+ is too good, then buff the raids. Give them double vault rewards, double the drops from bosses, squish the ilvl disparity between difficulties, give them a Valor point system, bring back bonus rolls… compensate raids in some way for the weekly lockouts.
I was very anti-M+for a long time because of what it did to raiding. But the reality is, we’re 3 expansions deep now and I got with the programme.
How many players still subbed see M+ as their endgame? How many raiders have quit?
The damage is done. Kill M+ and they’ll kill WOW. The old school raiders won’t come back to save it…
6 Likes
By tacking massive time requirements outside of raid just TO raid.
I did a count at the end of week 2, this season:
20 Heroic raid bosses + 9 Mythic raid bosses
26 Mythic+ dungeons
Time spent:
raiding - 21 hours
Mythic+ - 13 hours, 6 minutes
From that:
wearing 3 pieces from raid (304 belt, 298 ring, 291 ring)
wearing 7 pieces from M+ (291 helm, 288 neck, 291 shoulders, 291 cloak, 304 chest, 298 weapon, 298 legs)
M+ is a massively superior time investment in terms of gearing efficiency.
But the PROBLEM is that ever since Nighthold, Blizzard tunes the raids assuming that everyone has all that M+ loot before setting foot in the raid. If you don’t spend extra hours of homework every week doing M+, you’re going to be behind the intended gear curve when you walk into that raid.
If Blizzard would tune the raids with the assumption that nobody did M+, and just let people gear for the raid by doing the raid, like it was for the first 14 years, there would be no problem.
4 Likes
when has there ever been a time in MMO history where removing loot that has already been added was a good thing lmao think about what we’re saying here, to be clear.
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We keep asking for improvements to raiding, and Blizzard continues to hammer raiding with a sledgehammer, instead.