The game would be far better if they just deleted mythic raiding. Made Heroic raiding difficulty untouched the top raiding level and left M+ alone.
For the vast majority of the player-base, raiding at that level isn’t fun or desirable. Everyone involved in mythic raiding constantly says … this crap isn’t worth the time commitment. AND THEY ARE RIGHT. But no amount of loot is going to make it worth … it’s wack and needs to go, so it will stop killing the rest of the game.
Nah. I won’t do anything in this game if the reward structure doesn’t feel good. And whoever has been designing rewards for this thing has been letting everyone down.
I think there’s too many difficulty levels as it is, but mythic does allow for a truly difficult challenge for those that want it. I don’t think removing it is the right approach, but certainly they need to change it.
Make it flex - allow smaller groups. 10man mythic would be ideal, but the ability to flex raid spots is long overdue. It’s not fun having 11 or 12 people wanting to raid, but not being able to bring them.
Stop designing the game around mythic raids and the race to world first and potential degenerate gameplay. Balance the (raiding) game around the majority of guilds - which are guilds doing normal and heroic.
Ideally (from my pov) they’d just use the ulduar model, and allow a guild to “activate” mythic mode from within the heroic raid, per boss - rather than having another separate tier.
It would have to be no loot rewards, or the green monster will come out and everything will stay the same. But ya, that is a great solution.
Has not let me down, you dont speak for “everyone”.
He’s entitled to his opinion, just like you. Why not explain what you love about the loot system and why you like it, instead of attacking the guy?
My apologies, I meant all forms of content players, not literally everyone. No matter what your primary form of content is this expansion, a large amount of people felt that the reward structure for it was in bad shape.
Glad you enjoyed it. I wish my bar was that low.
Season 4 is fun, however.
You dont get disappointed if you dont expect things. Atleast for me this works cant speak for everyone.
That’s such a wild way to come at a subscription-based video game, I don’t get it. But you do you.
Just because I pay $15 a month to play this game, doesn’t mean im entitled to anything. I’m happy with the loot I get or dont get from whatever content I do.
Im here for the friends I make along my in game journeys, loot is just a bonus. So yeah not expecting anything works for me.
You’re probably every company’s favorite consumer. Good for you.
How are we even to blame for something going on between Mythic+ and raids? We are like the Millennials of this game, lol. Blamed for something we aren’t even involved in.
I’m not sure why people are in this one or the other mind set. Nobody is forcing you to do M+ and nobody is saying you can’t do it if you raid.
People act like m+ is giving all this wild loot but honestly you can do your weekly 8 and only get 1 drop. It might also not even be usable.
Outside of upgrades M+ drops are 288 at the most. That’s under heroic raiding at 291.
To upgrade you need m+ score and past the drop cap that’s a pretty high score for bad players to get. Beyond that the valor it takes to upgrade them. It’s not nearly as ez free gear as people try to make it out to be.
Are you running for War Chief? I would totally vote for you.
I say make raids spammable for loot. Everyone tends to forget that if you fail to kill a raid boss nothing is lost but your time. Fail to kill a M+ boss and your key is lowered and you can’t just kick the bads and try again. Ohh you all are talking about killing other people key’s just to get your weekly vault…my bad carry on being carries.
I have been in this odd spot a few times now. I run M+ most of the time, as my work schedule doesnt afford me a set raid night schedule to find a guild to do them with. Then on my days off, I PuG the raid.
What usually happens is, I go into the normal raid with very few, if any upgrades in there for me. So I clear normal to experience the raid then go back to M+ till a next day off. Then I apply to heroic pugs. Usually I dont get accepted into heroic PuGs (Unless I am on a Healer) till my gear is at or above Heroic ilvl. So then I go into Heroic needing little to no loot from the raid. It gets a little frustrating, and makes raiding feel not very rewarding. When I got AoTC for Ny’alotha, for at least 65% of my progress through the raid, there was not a single upgrade in there for me on Heroic unless it proc’d a perfect corruption. So I was just doing it for boss kills. That got a little tiring.
This is a community problem. People always want it as easy as possible.
Your observations are the same as many raiders. By about four to five weeks into raiding, most of the drops aren’t needed by anyone. For Heroic and to actually progress through the content, you need to M+ or else you’re probably looking at one new boss a week, so 3-6 hours of dealing with the same content with little reward. The performance differences between someone who only raids and someone who does both is pretty substantial and that’s as early as week one.
Raiding’d reward structure is probably the worst in the game, beaten only by world content because they literally can’t get high end gear (which should be fixed somehow, too.)
Except it isn’t the same, in his case he was being denied from being able to do raid all due to his current item level. In short, what people do is they get the best-geared people all for the hopes that since they have equal or better gear, they’ll trade drops.
His situation is he can’t get into raids because the leaders want to be carried, they want to try and guarantee as much loot sharing as possible, that’s vastly different than an organized group that isn’t relying on a full set of pugs to clear Heroic for AotC.
You don’t need M+ gear to progress, unless your group’s overall skill isn’t adequate to defeat bosses, particularly on Normal or Heroic. There may be a wall here or there, like Halondrus, but as we have seen over SoTFO, most of that was a tuning issue rather than anything else.
You can see that differential even if that player doesn’t even do M+ though.
The sole act of getting gear in this game is entirely RNG and that’s part of the issue in the raid scene, particularly with organized groups. They’re tired of the situation where even if people only raid, it’s frustrating when you see the same subset of players getting rewards boss after boss and others go without, that creates this disparity as well without ever doing any other type of content.
So while M+ can attribute to this, so can any other gearing option in this game as well. To try and imply it’s only M+ is very disingenuous.
I would raid if it didn’t require half to three quarters of an entire 8 hour work shift with my butt growing vines to my chair and only being allotted a 5 minute break all night long halfway thru the raid.
If they designed raids to be more like M+ where you had 10 or 12 bosses but there was only 1 or 2 bosses in each wing of the raid and it was instanced then i think youd find far more people like me abandon m+ for heroic raiding.
Mythic raiding will always require a tight knit well organized guild type unit and im fine with never seeing mythic raids as long as heroic raids and normal raids could be completed in smaller time investment sections.
Both normal and heroic raids are designed around being puggable to begin with, Ion even said as much, so breaking it up like this just makes sense.
The main reason M+ is focused is because of its spammable nature. You can run M+ all week and get more gear than any other avenue in the game. There are restrictions in other aspects, raids in particular, but M+ is unlimited. And you can spend the week even failing +15s and have Mythic ilvl pieces to choose from in your vault the next week, and you have Valor that you can upgrade your items with. Gearing in M+ is the fastest in the entire game, and it absolutely causes a huge difference in performance in raid.
Sepulcher tuning was bad, but getting through early on was made possible if everyone slammed through M+s (because +15 was easy day one of season 3 for anyone who was running +15 or Heroic in the prior season). Which is another issue, there’s no reprogression in M+; you get to +15 in the first patch, you’re geared by the next path to jump right back in and start spamming out the newest higher ilvl. I know this, because I did it. I felt like I had to in order to keep up with my group. No, the raid leader doesn’t push it, but the community desire of remaining competitive or not riding the bottom of the charts because I just so happen to not enjoy running the same dungeons for two years made me feel like I had no choice.
You’re right, you don’t need M+ to progress; but if you only stick to Heroic, you aren’t downing many new bosses anytime soon. And if you’re only able to clear 4-5 of the 10-11 bosses in the raid early on, that’s 4-5 chances of loot. During that time I can easily double my chances by running more M+. The rewards for raiding are horrific compared to what you can get in M+, especially if we consider the weeks where more gear drops in dungeons.
So yes, perhaps M+ isn’t the sole problem facing the general reward structure of the game, but it’s absolutely the largest reason there’s a problem to begin with. And I’ve said countless times, I’m not advocating for M+ to be nerfed, but the fact M+ players simply do not care to have a conversation in regards to how bad it is for Heroic raiders because they’re happy with their content is frustrating enough. I want to raid and still be competitive, I don’t want to be forced into dungeons I’m sick and tired of seeing and am utterly bored of experiencing because I actually want a freaking piece of loot to drop for me within a week of actually trying to play this game.