what gear can you collect that will stop a 14 or 25 million hitpoint attack? have you done a tier 12 delve?
Of course I haven’t progressed that far, it has a much higher iLevel. I bet others haven’t quite got there either, so most everyone is trying higher tiers while not having the right gear. Of course it will be too hard, won’t have the HP or DPS.
if you think normal and heroic dungeons dont have a lose mechanic that just tells me you dont play much with pug groups.
Nice reading skills.
Look man, I just came out of a weyrn a year ago, neltharion didnt exactly send us to fancy book learning skills like you weird half metal freaks.
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Yeah delves overall are not a reliable source of gear, even raid could be considered non reliable as well in a sense given how it works now.
Overall blizzard has been eroding the gearing systems that we have, it’s been sad to watch.
you know what you can get from 10s that u cant get from delves? mythic gear. that alone means there not the same. delves are filler. sure its a endgame pilar but its for people who dont need mythic gear.
The delve paradox, where you need campion gear to get the champion gear rewards.
Quite similar to pug N raids where you need a heroic ilvl to be invited, but get champion ilvl rewards.
That doesn’t mean it’s adequate.
the irony to this is that you can’t upgrade the delve gear without doing other activities due to the crest needs. whoops.
it’s just lead to a lot of people not pulling their weight in m0 and normal raids with a bogus “i have good ilvl” because they obtained it by letting an npc carry them through hilariously trivial content.
there’s no point in any delve past 8, right? I read somewhere at some point that rewards stop increasing past 8 and the little point there is (bountiful 8 for brann exp once you don’t need the gear) only slows down due to increasing mob hps
you don’t “guarantee upgrades” in delves, it’s RNG based on slot.
the best control you have is in M0 / M+ where certain dungeons have certain drops. ie, if you want a 2h weapon for your paladin your best option is siege of boralus because 2 drop there, and your other options for a single potential drop are threads, mists, necrotic, and batol. ara, dawnbreaker, stonevault don’t drop 2h.
versus delves where you have a cap on keys for bountifuls and it’s just a deep RNG.
As it stands, I don’t see who delves are actually for: the amount of runs you have to do to cap the “journey” is absurd, doing delves that much just to unlock effectively cosmetics and the ability to blow currency on a key you will absolutely not need at that point? For what, your 7th alt?
People keep parroting this idea that it is “casual progression” but you need crests to upgrade the gear that only drop in other activities.
The chase are the 3 maps you can get a week that drop 610 hero gear, but to upgrade that gear you have to do something other than delves. Likewise with the vault reward dropping 616 hero gear.
So yes, by running 8 tier 8s every week, you get 3 rolls of 616 gear. With perfect RNG you will be full 616 in 16 weeks.
To do that is hardly a “casual” player activity. I cannot fathom who will push delves that way but not spend LESS time getting BETTER upgrades in other activities.
Normal raiding feels like LFR now because of the ease to get normal drops and upgrade them.
In 2 hours you get a full clear of a normal w/a ton of crests for upgrades and probably an item or two. If you’re lucky and the comp is in your favor you can pull many more than that. In 2 hours.
Yet people who claim they are “casual” are spending dozens of hours in delves for what, exactly?
The flipside of this is normal raiding and mythic dungeons are far more intensive yet a full clear of normal raid gets you… 3 rolls of 597? and 8 mythics get you three rolls of 603?
Delves do fill a need of people progressing at their own pace and not needing anyone else. You can afk in a delve and not get booted. hooray!
but to discuss it in terms of “progression” ? Ehhhh for anyone actually interested in progression delves are a chore just like anything else. farming wqs for keys for rng loot. 100% filler for anyone progression minded.
I feel that blizz had to embed it into “required filler” for progression people otherwise delves on their own track would be considered an absurd grind for effectively tmogs
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The difference being that in Heroic raids, you fail mechanics. You don’t fail because you got 1-shot by a white attack from 2 mobs. Delve difficulty would be much more welcome if it was actually… difficult, and not just tuned to be insanely gear dependent, not to mention spec dependent.
Most delves don’t have mechanics. They have numbers bigger than can be handled by many specs. It’s that simple. That’s not challenging. It’s not difficult. It’s just tuned wrong, frankly.
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In normal you can faceroll your keyboard and there are a total of maybe 3 things in the entire raid that is a “mechanic fail.” and maybe 1 dps check.
1 shot by 2 hits, that’s a new one.
Hyperbole. I have one of every class and none have faced this “insurmountable delve math” that is being proposed here. I will admit that when I see a WQ that has an upgrade, I do it. I also do dungeons. So I’m not an “only delve” player. I personally don’t see why anyone would be.
personally I would want the higher end of delves to be hard enough to hurt.
If theyre not, whats the point?
I doubt Im going to progress that far anyway because I dont like it when world content is one shot…just demeans the fun of it.
I said in another thread that I appreciate Delves. They harken me back to TBC and Wrath when mechanics, crowd control, calculated pulls, etc were all a thing. These are not intended to be faceroll normal dungeons. They are to get your mind right for Mythic level dungeons and raiding. To remind people not to stand in the bad (like how Bran is always saying “move” or “don’t stand in those webs”. I love Delves and thanks to them I have my first 610 piece waiting in my great vault.
You’re the one who said every spec can do 10s. All I said was, not during the first week and for sure not everyone can do 10s regardless of spec, I sure can’t.
5s give 603 and 613 in vault. And I’m pretty sure every spec can do 5s. That would be the key level that you’d need to be making the equivalency to, not 10s. Especially if they give mythic track gear in the vault.
Like I said
If you could just guarantee that the gear you get is the optimal gear, then how long do you think things like Delves would remain relevant content?
RNG has always been a part of WoWs loot system and it always will be unless they make fundamental changes to the game that gives you something beyond loot to progress your character at endgame.
They arguably tried to do that with things like artifact weapons.
Sure, but you aren’t guaranteed to get any gear at all when you run a M+ dungeon, which was my point.
You can run your 4-5 bountiful Delves a week that you have the keys for and you are guaranteed to get a piece of 603 gear at the end of each of those runs.
For casual players like me, that’s a lot more attractive than the prospect of running a bunch of M+ dungeons and possibly never getting any gear at all.
Other activities like WQs, which are once again something you can complete in a timely fashion.
They told you who Delves were for. Endgame progression for casual players. Casual doesn’t mean bad, casual means doesn’t have the time to regularly spend hours upon hours playing the game. Like me, who has maybe an hour or two at the end of my work day to jump on WoW if I’m not totally worn out, don’t have other things to do and didn’t have to work late.
I’d argue that applies to a sizeable chunk of WoWs playerbase.
If you’re a raider, that’s cool. You are not the target audience for Delves.
It’s right there in your statement.
That’s 2 hours in one big chunk.
If you’re with a raiding guild there are generally raid nights and times you have to show up for, because you’re coordinating a bunch of people. People like me can’t commit to that, nor do we want to. I’d rather play the game when I have time and feel like playing it, not because it’s the time our guild is getting everybody together.
If you’re not with a raiding guild and are instead pugging, then you never know how long it might take or what sort of experience you might have.
Whereas a tier 8 Delve generally takes me ~20-40mins depending on the Delve. That’s something I can more easily fit in and I’m guaranteed to get some sort of reward for that time.
It doesn’t seem like you’re the target audience for Delves, which is fine.
the point was every spec can do 10s once they’re geared for it.
Some specs can do it earlier. I did a 9 on my warlock being severely undergeared (25ish ilvls under) because a) pet class b) ranged class.
There is a huge melee dps tax to delves. A lot of melee got away with a mega-op brann tanking/dps carrying.
That said, it isn’t insurmountable for any class/spec. It just requires a specific build (not some icy veins “top dps” cut+paste) to emphasize sustain + cc.
You inserting yourself into an entirely different conversation that has nothing to do with what I was replying to but thanks for the input I guess.