Delves is more grindy. You need to do several World Quests to acquire Coffer Keys, then level Delves to 8, make sure Brann is level 15. Then at level 8, takes time to kill trash then the Boss. It’s as long as M+.
On M+, just open my Dungeon Finder, kill all Bosses then wash and repeat. No coffer keys needed. I dont need to use my key, groups in Dungeon Finder usually has the key already.
It doesn’t matter since it’s RNG and you lose control of what the drop is. Guaranteeing loot for any slot is not more efficient than maybe getting loot for what you want, since there is control over the drop pool.
IE a delve has 1/16 chance of dropping the item you want and 15/16 being trash is not more efficient than 10% droprate on the item you want but 90% you get nothing.
And m0/+ give more currency in the same amount of time.
It’s not endgame progression for casual players. It’s “get rng mid-tier items that you can’t upgrade.”
I guess the main issue of catering to this mythical casual base is that they don’t have enough awareness of how the game works to make rational decisions about time effectivity.
In other words, I don’t know who has time for delves but not enough time for things that yield better rewards, faster.
The anecdote is a lot of people “betting most of wow’s playerbase is that.”
OK if you honestly think that this player doesn’t get effectively bored of repeating the same dead-end content week after week because “solo progression” I’m not going to change your mind, and we’ll just agree to write off all of the complaints about how vapid the system is as individuals not representing the whole.
ie, why is “solo progression” capped at doing maybe a bountiful w/key daily max, and the rest is meaningless exp grind for brann that stops being useful very early on? it’s the most gated system in the game.
What’s cool? Delves give gear that are only upgradeable and effectively useful in raids. Raid gear is not required to beat the cap, delve 8.
I’m definitely not the target audience for delves because I’m actually aware of how the game works and delves are just inflated grind w/severe gating.
They flat out negatively impact the rest of the game by people who feel comfy clogging queues and joining groups “because ilvl” or even worse “because this is the only content i can do for upgrades now” and everyone has a bad experience as a result.
If they wanted delves to be “solo progression” they should have made it self-contained w/delve only gear.
But they didn’t because they went with “lets water down normal raids and dungeon content to include people who basically aren’t interested in it.”
It’s not 2 hours in one big chunk. You can do it boss by boss.
That’s just apologia for a poorly implemented system that only serves to further water down the game. That statement is no different than saying “you’re not the target audience for wow”
But I’ll be sure to keep track on who is filling the “delve journey” bar, aka grind the same handful of dungeons over literally 1000+ hours for a few tmogs or whatever? I agree, I’m definitely not “the target” for that.
I’m effectively a solo player. My problem with delves is that it is NOT solo progression, it’s just raider filler. Any progression raider is compelled to get an advantage by doing this silly content.
It’s no different to PVP gear being required for bleeding edge progression back in the day.
Yes, because it matters who is calling you out for being basically incorrect. I wasn’t aware that a public forum had a king holding court.
I’m not giving you input for you to potentially solve the riddle of delve balance, I’m stating the truth of the matter and it’s an uninteresting, objectively stated fact.
The math of delves isn’t unsolved or subject to opinion.
you need 600+ ilvl to get 603 gear
it should be 616 gear from the boxes and 626 in the vault
I’d add an extra word to that.
“There shouldn’t be any unavoidable one shot mechanics”
One shot mechanics are fine as long as you can not get one shot by doing them correctly. Getting one shot because you screwed up is fine IMO.
No you don’t.
Delve 8s are completely doable by all classes in basically heroic dungeon gear with a few upgrades.
That misconception highlights the problem of a system claimed to be “catering to ‘casual’ players” who are effectively progression-ignorant: it takes time to understand the underlying systems.
I’ll just start quoting myself.
If you have plenty of time to put aside and play WoW, then that’s fantastic, more power to you.
Delves offer a sense of reward for less time invested overall. Which is perfect for people with less time to commit.
You obviously just don’t understand the target audience because you aren’t the target audience.
Just focus on content that is designed for you.
There is a sizeable portion of the playerbase that is not engaging with things like dungeons and raids as endgame content. That isn’t some mythical thought experiment, it’s something that can be seen statistically. Blizz can see who is and isn’t engaging with content.
The leaks show that Blizzard always see huge drop offs in the playerbase after an expansion launched. Blizzard saw a huge exodus to competitors like FFXIV. Blizzard said that the release of Classic content like Wrath and Cata did not stem the bleeding of subs like they hoped it would.
Blizzard are obviously trying to capture that portion of the playerbase. You can see that in how much more effort they’re putting into the story with a storyline set to run across 3 expansions and additions like “stay and listen”. You can see that through the introduction of follower dungeons and story-mode raids. You can see that through their introduction of Delves as a new evergreen pillar to offer an alternative to dungeons, raiding and PvP.
These players obviously exist, and they’re obviously a sizeable base of customers.
Delves certainly aren’t perfect, but they are also a brand new system.
They will take work, and there’s a long way to go.
They are two separate systems. Repeat after me. Two. Separate. Systems.
This is predominantly an issue born out of Blizzard having poor balance for groups. Group Delves were never meant to be steamrolled like they were, which is why we saw Blizzard scramble to fix it with a rushed hotfix.
So you’re salty about the poor balance group Delves, got you.
If they’re in raids, they are not the audience Blizz are targetting with Delves.
This seems like it’s probably a lie to try and give yourself more credit in the conversation. You seem awfully focused on raids and the interaction between Delves and raids for someone who apparently doesn’t raid at all.
M0 too is doable. Then after some runs, do M+.
I can do both but i find Delves more grindy at start.
Level the Delves to 8? Thats 8 runs. Then grind for Coffee Keys?
When i get 2 slots for M0 Vault this week, it was just around 2 and a half hours. 4x Level 8 delves would take around 2 hours to complete. Where’s the Coffer keys? 4x Coffer keys is like hours to produce.
People crying that delves are so hard to solo at such easy tiers are reallllly gonna love zekvir lmao
every spec can do 10s. blizzard tuned it that way and this is their words. delves will never be a equal comparison to m+ as m+ is endgame and delves are filler
You only grind them once mate. Alts unlock the tiers as well. 5 man groups run a bountiful t8 delves in like 10 to 20 min depending on the delves.
And they can also drop up to 610 with the bounty map reward drop and they can drop other pieces of loot at 584
And how much time did you spend to get Coffer keys? Dont tell me you did Delves for the Vault without Coffer keys.
It’s quicker to complete M+. If you are a bad player, you may not even complete an M+ run. For veteran M+ players, dungeon runs are usually quick.
No it’s not because the weekly quests give you your keys so you are already doing them …
And the tier 8 delves maxed weekly vault slot rewards 618 or whatever it is x3 if you do them all.
That’s for now. In few weeks, Delves gear would be inferior.
you need to find a better guild
We are talking about right now. And gearing to run mythic plus. Delves will most likely always be the easiest way to grab nice loot for your alts quickly. That’s what they want them to be. That same logic means mythic 0 is useless then to gear as well. The right answer is you do both. Knock out your delves because they are so easy and everyone is doing them. Then que for mythics or do the raid. I’m not really sure what your real argument even is lol
Your reading comprehension could use some work, maybe go back to what I was replying to, you can click the little icon in the upper right of my initial response and that will get you back on track with the conversation I was having, which has nothing to do with whatever you’re blabbering on about.
Well, if you do full clear heroic week 1, you probably go onto mythic after that which then takes a few months of wiping to full clear.