Some of these rules are so inane, such as not taking epic powers, not using 500 phantasma, no power duplicates, killing two elites within 10 seconds; that the greatest raiders of WoW wouldn’t be able to figure out the scoring system without wowhead.
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I must just be imagining the likely literal hours that I’ve spent in the game over the last sixteen years going through various tutorials and paging through various in-game guides that go over how various features of the game work.
Like, I don’t know, the in-game guides to every dungeon and raid boss? That explain every ability that they have, and what to watch out for based on your spec. Did you know that the trash leading up to a boss will almost always give you a preview of the mechanics that they use too? Wild times.
They put in the entire new 1-10 island to teach people game mechanics.
They had the Proving Grounds in Mists.
Shadowlands, though, has been unprecedentedly undocumented. Major game features have gone with little to no explanation, quests are vague and unintuitive. The amount of explanation for each Covenant’s unique Sanctum feature was utterly nonexistent. The Ember Court at first was laughably opaque, so much so that there weren’t even really good guides for it yet. No one understood it, and that was WITH some in-game guidance.
I’m pretty sure that ZAM Media is head over heels with the amount of clicks, traffic and unpaid labor that the players are giving their sites, though.
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You were.
The dungeon journal is not only fairly new, but doesn’t tell you the cds of each ability, how often they use them or when the “stages” start.
Also, dungeon bosses aren’t even the main attraction of a dungeon and there isn’t a single word about any of the trash mobs.
This is a shadowlands addition. I never said they haven’t gotten better over time and I wish that leveling experience would continue to 60, but it doesn’t.
This is trial by fire, not a tutorial. You could learn through trial and error in every part of the game, you didn’t need a scenario for it.
Yeah this my problem with it. It’s very convoluted. Yeah, sure, I can look on wowhead and figure out all the arbitrary tasks I must do to get a good score each time but… it’s not fun.
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Yeah, this is what I was about to say. Mystery achievements should be EXTRA… not what you need for completion to continue. If we need it for completion to continue, we should be told about them. You know, given an actual list of objectives.
Exactly this.
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I don’t understand why they made it so complicated after 8 months of players doing Torghast how they prefer….
My friend actually left she was a Rogue, She’d stealth and kill certain mobs to reach the end of the floor… well not anymore… and I quote from her “ so now Torghast is M+”…
This isn’t a new feature from the beginning they making Torghast now basically have season inside patches….like M+.
What people on the forums defending this don’t understand many arnt like us, as in we come to the forums to complain and see WoW get better, change for the better, many just say “yeah…Nope” and leave to greener pastures.
It’s really sad. 
everything is becoming… play a certain way to progress or forget it…
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Now you are just being difficult. Set your watch if you want to time yourself
Oh you mean like how if you don’t follow certain mechanics you will do less dps or even die in a boss fight? How terrible. /s
Sorry I’m confused, I thought this was a discussion on Torghast and the recent changes to it, and what are you on about?, and how does that work with Torghast? Dps? Boss mechanics? I think you are in the wrong discussion 
In a boss fight you always need to follow certain mechanics in order to succed, how is this any different? Just complete the bonus objectives and you will get flawless.
As I said previously, ok doing your terminology, people been doing the same boss, for 8 months on farm but could complete it differently, some may fight him straight on, some may stealth it, some just may heal through it…
They been doing it for 8 months, no issues they all get the kill individually, they all progress the same way even though all approach the boss differently. Importantly regardless their approach they all progress.
Now 8 months later they change it, which no on asked and literally theirs no different approaches on the same boss, no other tactics, it’s literally just everyone has to do it this way or so long good bye you not going to progress… no one can play how they prefer anymore.
That’s the problem.
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New system kills torghast for me. My preferred method was just to stealth to the boss and only kill bosses. Now if I do that and kill the floor 5 boss I still don’t proceed. I lose even though I won.
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If you read up literally, my friend she left WoW for this exact reason, she said “ so now Torghast is M+“…
They literally just took all the fun or what was left of the fun out of it, before it was a rogue like dungeon crawl, no matter how you played aslong as the final boss drops you are golden, it’s a win.
Now, literally everyone who defends it says the exact same thing… do it this way, the only way… what fun is that… if I wanted content like this I’d stick to M+ and Raids, Torghast was supposed to be different content, now it’s literally all the same, M+, Raids and Torghast, gotta do this one play style or you won’t go far…
I just don’t get how people don’t understand this… everyone prefers to play WoW differently, do content differently. Torghast was supposed to be different from the main content.
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The amount, or lack of should I say, of official communication on anything important in any detailed form over the last couple of years has been disappointing. And I’m being mild there.
I mean, how hard is it to put out a blue post? They provide hotfix details, dates on season releases, substantial posts about shop mounts and 6 monthly sub deals but other than that…virtually nothing.
Blizzard should be ashamed and so should the Game Director, who can’t seem to care about finding the time to communicate with players.
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Just did a test run. Broke every urn, looted every chest, killed every mob and all bosses, got every anima cell, used empowered on every boss, with zero deaths on a layer 8, and did it all fairly quickly. Ended with a 3 star run. System is garbage. So next step is looking up their bonus objectives that it doesn’t even tell you pre run in game and memorizing which ones I wanna complete? System is dumb. Like I said- I won but I lost.
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This combined with ambiguous or broken tooltips from the beginning have just made a complicated mess. Instead of chance, high chance…can you just make a percentage so that I don’t have to Google rppms and formulate a mathematical equation or sim 30 different scenarios to figure out what the best piece of gear is? Literally game code isn’t even congruent with how things work due to bad programming.
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Mine shows a par time. What gets my goat is that if you miss even one single urn, you can actually kill your chance at getting a five gem and unlocking past the fifth floor. This was definitely a system nobody asked for and really didn’t want. It sure didn’t make Torghast any more enjoyable.
Yeah, this is really the crux of the problem here. You aren’t unlocking those higher floors unless you do the most unintuitive things possible and/or gimp yourself to hell and back. That’s great for a masochist, but the vast majority of us are not masochists. This could have been used as a really good alternate progression route for non-M+ | N/H/M raiding players. Instead, it’s…this. Convoluted and counterintuitive.
Nope. I did every bonus objective that I knew existed (outside of the hidden objectives such as no epic power, etc.) and couldn’t five gem. And they somehow made the urns harder enough to see that I somehow missed at least one, which also screwed me over plenty.
The scoring system didn’t get positive reviews on the PTR, and it sure isn’t getting any here on live either. It makes you feel like you failed even when you thought you did everything possible. That’s a sure sign that it isn’t a good system.
Boom. Headshot. This is where the system fails in its entirety. Doing expected mechanics and getting far less than expected results shouldn’t be a thing. Yet it is in so many aspects of this expansion, and now Torghast.
They’re making their players feel like they failed for doing what they thought was expected. Couple that with zero proper communication regarding the new “system” and you have a recipe for very angry players and a very, very toxic response from them as a result. I’m being nice in how I frame things, but it isn’t easy given just how much of this system is hidden behind the veil of obscurity and at the same time so counterintuitive.
Because many of them are not fun or exceedingly difficult depending on class/spec? Or as some like myself have noted, entirely counterintuitive and unexpected due to (again) lack of communication. I didn’t even know about the subsystem within the system until I saw my score, so I didn’t know to even try things like that. A scoring system shouldn’t require an external guide just to begin understanding.
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Scoring? All I’ve noticed is that you run through it, kill stuff, get a reward or die too many times and “lose”.
The thing I dislike the most is that getting rewarded for going through every square inch of a floor, and getting rewarded for doing it as fast as possible, seem like diametrically opposed goals. Either reward us for doing it quick or reward us for scouring every nook and cranny for that one urn that could possibly be missed.
Actually, if they added a floor completion bar, that would even be helpful. Would be nice to know before walking up the stairs that we missed something.
Hoarder is not Hard. Not using epic anima powers is not hard. Killing two elites at almost the same time is not hard. Robber is not hard.