Honestly, it’s way easier to run them yourself anyway. In the time it takes to sell a token I could have run the dungeon about 10 times or cleared the heroic raid. I could have gotten more gear than I would have from a carry, I’d have more experience and knowledge, and I didn’t spend a cent(not counting the sub fee).
Oh I agree, what gets me is that this nonsense thread has hit over 700 replies.
It’s not really an advantage to run 1 dungeon in the time it takes somebody not paying to run it a dozen times. General statement here, not directed towards anyone.
Nope it’s not. And where gear helps some, fact is it doesn’t give people skills. I have seen people who bought runs get outright refused from groups because, well they suck.
Look back at what I said. Two identical people. Identical skill. One has more gear. The one with more gear will do more DPS.
Unless something else changes, they have bought advantage.
I’m arguing that buying advantage over others, with cash = pay-to-win.
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You can argue all you want, you are still wrong.
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So an unlikely hypothetical scenario? Okay.
Then what phrase would YOU like to use, to describe paying for advantage in-game, with cash?
It’s rather laughable that your side is so inconsistent that one of you is arguing that gear isn’t an advantage and the other is arguing that it doesn’t matter.
If your side had a consistent definition, I’d respect it more.
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What I would say to a sane person is this, you can get wow gold for a token. That is it. Blizzard has zero control over what you choose to do with said gold. If the players choose to sell runs, which has never been illegal unless they actually use real cash (yeah those guys get banned, doesn’t fit your narrative I know).
You reaching and calling this pay to win is the laugh here.
I asked a question. You don’t want to use a standard definition. What term would you like to use to describe the game environment of being able to purchase in-game advantage for cash?
I suggested pay-to-blup, which I created for this purpose.
But knowing that if it ever gained steam, you’d just co-opt that too, it seems like we should stick with the term that already describes that.
One that clearly demonstrates gear is an advantage.
Try to read the whole thing again.
Note zero control over how you spend the gold. There is nothing in the game shop that gives you an adavantage which is the real definition of pay to win. You can keep finding whatever source fits your narrative all you want, most consumers see it this way.
But… you still CAN purchase in-game advantage, with cash.
That’s what creates the death spiral of people emptying their wallets to stay one step ahead of each other that people describe with the term pay-to-win.
I didn’t say it was Blizz’s fault because they couldn’t seem to combat gold-selling any other way except adding the token.
I just said that because people can get a leg-up over others with cash, pay-to-win is here.
Ok you keep saying CAN like it means something. You have a choice to spend your gold how you see fit. You are not guaranteed anything from paying for a run for one, also nowhere, I repeat in absolutely zero locations does Blizzard say that this is the intended use of the token. Your personal choice does not make the game pay to win.
It does. It means you can.
Places where you can do things are different from places where you cannot.
Some carriers will guarantee you a certain number of pieces.
So, just to be clear, if you bought full tier sets off the shop, and Blizz never said the intended use of the gear was to have an advantage over others, still not pay-to-win?
Or just because they sell those full tier sets, well, I don’t have to buy them. That’s my choice. So not pay-to-win, right?
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It isn’t.
I played this one game where I was much younger that had a roadblock once you complete the first act. The monsters spiked in difficulty and it was hard to defeat them if you don’t have really good upgraded armor and weapons. Even then upgrading is a game of chance and your items get deleted if you fail, and a scroll for guaranteed success costs real money.
So no. None of this is required and you don’t have to p2w. The game I just talked about is a good example of p2w.
Edit: I stand corrected. I just remembered that the scrolls don’t guarantee success, they prevent your items from being deleted. There’s still a chance of failure, which makes things even more insane.
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You do realize that your question reflects real pay to win? Guessing not, but do carry on, you seem to like to do so.
Really a number? OH BOY! Thing is they can’t guarantee what gear you will get though, but hey let’s not factor that in right?
You keep putting up hypothetical scenarios that make no sense.
They make perfect sense to anyone earnestly trying to understand the opposition to this environment blizzard created. They aren’t reaching when all you can say to retort their position is that they are bringing up hypotheticals. Hypotheticals i might add which absolutely apply in game.
therein lies the problem Blizzard has let loose the gates of hell by allowing players to purchase gold with cash and not address the fact that buying carries with gold was always legal. They monopolized the gold selling market and the market to sell carries for cash. It’s actually hilarious because most the players selling carries for gold are actually making blizzard IRL cash. Why doesn’t blizzard allow them to sell carries for cash and only gold? because then blizzard wouldn’t be turning a profit off the fruits of their labors.
Why is it okay when blizzard sells carries for cash indirectly but not when third parties do it directly? why is one cheating and not the other?
Easy, one is against the EULA one is not. You are delusional if you think this is the only game where they sell runs. This has never been considered pay to win. Blizzard is not selling runs, players are. And really, who are you to dictate how anyone chooses to spend their gold? I bought a token this week and bought six mounts from auction, is that against the EULA too because my mounts are cuter?
If you get a seller actually expecting cash payment, I mean USD, not a made up currency, they get banned. It happens all the time. They aren’t banned for selling the run, they are banned for soliciting real money in the game, nothing more.
in other words as long as blizzard is profiting from it the environment of the game is irrelevant in your opinion. Got it.
It’s been well established it’s not but those other games are considered PTW by their player base wow isn’t even though it promotes the same environment with extra steps.
Buying in game advantage over other players with out of game currency? Yeah that’s pay to win.
Blizzard enables the sale for cash by selling gold for cash, just because there extra steps doesn’t mean blizzard isn’t getting cash for players to pay guilds for carries. They basically treat the carry sellers as virtual slaves because it’s illegal for the carry sellers to sell those runs for cash but blizzard will profit in cash off of their labors.
Who is blizzard to dictate how anyone chooses to spend their cash?
You don’t get an in game advantage just a cosmetic one which no one is arguing against. Now had blizzard done what they tried to do in wod which was lock flying in draenor then sell it back to players on a 25 dollar mount we would be having a very different discussion.
PS: Based on your achievements and the armory you aren’t a player who pushes mythic content or end game so i don’t expect you to understand why this is upsetting to players who do.
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