You cheated not only the game, but yourself. You didn’t grow. You didn’t improve. You took a shortcut and gained nothing. You experienced a hollow victory. Nothing was risked and nothing was gained. It’s sad that you don’t know the difference.
It’s more like pay to win some.
The carries and constant advertisement is a big turn off in this game now. Its everywhere and not just retail, the tokens have made gold trading bring out the gross greediness of the player system, its not for fun its for gold.
It’s sad that the game has turned into a buy wins AD.
If you think its just a few people that do it then ask yourself why its booming and hasn’t died down.
But wait, there’s more.
You want to see what Pay 2 Win is all about log into Star Wars the Old Republic, it use to be a great MMO, than EA turned it into a p2w cash shop. Hellz even Chinese MMOs aren’t as greedy.
Want to see what a good MMO is like but hasn’t crossed the line, try ESO, huge cash shop no P2W. Even FFXV has a great Cash shop and no P2W. WOW has hardly any, and none of the services offered are P2W. The same however can’t be said for other Blizzard Games, but than the Shooter and online battle arena genres are nothing but cash shops these days.
Go complain elsewhere, also learn to Play other MMOs, so you can see WOW is safe as long as they charge $15 (ish) a month.
You quoted me and said “no” but nowhere did you actually address what I said.
Your definition: Pay for advantage, AND the money has to go directly to the company.
I pointed out that your definition is pure legalism and fails to describe a game environment because nothing changes about the effect on the game environment is Blizz is behind the carries.
I didn’t say if they were or weren’t. I have no idea, and you don’t either.
But by your definition, if you want to state “WoW is not pay-to-win” you must actually prove Blizz is not behind the carries, and you can’t prove that any more than I can prove they are.
So you made up a useless definition on the spot that’s purely legalistic rather than descriptive, and insisted upon it, when all it does if accepted is take away words that describe game environments and replace them with words that describe nothing.
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This is the biggest stretch I’ve ever seen.
Don’t pull too many muscles there OP.
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Okay so you’re saying blizzard at one point banned players who bought gold then used that gold to get carried and that was right.
but it’s fine for blizzard to not ban players who buy gold with wow tokens then spend that gold getting carried.
All blizzard did was monopolize the market by making a previously unavailable black market available through legal means.
No all they did is put a shiv to things against ToS. Paying players for services isn’t. Trying to get rid of people using skills/capitalizing on other players laziness would not end well at all. This is all within the context of paying with in game currency.
Blizz has said paying for the services with cash is against ToS. The difference? In game currency VS cash. You are against something that is no different than mages wanting tips for portals or rogues for opening lockboxes. Maybe stop being so curmudgeonly and angry people are doing something you do not like, and thus call it against ToS/ P2W when the company itself which writes the ToS, and just play. For as much people you are getting validation with, you are getting just as much saying you are wrong here. What do you do? You ignore those and keep your stubborn opinion just because you don’t like it.
People do stuff you don’t like. That is life too. You have no right to try to take that away from people, and boy am I glad the people at blizz do not have the asinine opinion of being able to dictate what people spend their in game gold on like you do. Think the real question is what do you think in game gold should be spent on. What is ok with Anvilshock since he seems to think his opinion is best?
Mounts: Ok?
Mats? Ok?
Gear: Nope. That is P2W obviously despite 15 years of carries being in game.
Pets? Ok?
Stop me if i get one wrong.
First i love how you ignored my entire quote and cherry picked what you wanted to respond to. I’ll do you the favor of quoting your entire post and responding to it piece by piece.
The difference between vanilla and now is that Blizzard is the sole provider of legitimate cash for gold which makes selling runs for cash indirectly legitimate. In other words, Blizzard indirectly profits in cash from players purchasing runs with gold for chances at gear. I’ve said this many times i don’t know how to make it any more clear. By donning the mantle of gold seller mafioso supreme blizzard has incentivized paying cash to accomplish in game achievements such as gearing or end game raiding which diminishes the value of the reward for working toward those achievements since you can simply pay blizzard for the gold and give the gold to someone who will carry you. It’s not a mistake that blizzard has created an economy where carrying is the most profitable for gold in terms of time invested when they are indirectly profiting from the players who purchase wow tokens. This has an effect on other players besides those carrying and purchasing carries with gold and you refuse to see that.
Except those markets don’t require the average player to purchase a wow token to partake in them.
I’m not angry at players, I’m angry at blizzard for creating an environment in which this behavior is promoted so they can profit. Like store mounts, I believe it has a negative impact on overall game play and I’m allowed to express that belief.
At the end of the day players can pay cash not gold and have access to the highest quality of content. Whether they pay directly to blizzard for the content or not I as a player feel that is wrong. I think that a good compromise to this since most players are in agreement for gold carries is fine given the player has to earn the gold, is to make gold purchased by wow tokens unusable for carries.
How one would go about doing that is beyond me but it’s the only solution offered thus far that i think would stand a chance to satisfy all parties. That is of course assuming all parties are arguing in earnest that they think paying CASH (USD EURO YEN ECT) for carries is wrong.
I play because i enjoy wow, i’ve enjoyed wow a long time and i can see plain as day the micro transactions promoted by activision have had an awful effect on the well being of the warcraft franchise even though less and less people are willing to say so.
In other words this topic is extremely divided within the community. I don’t think i’ve ignored the ones who disagree with me, i mean i’m still here talking to you aren’t i? as of this post i’m the only player in thread who has offered a solution to the problem being posed and not danced around it with definitions and legalities. The only reason one would be against the idea i posed is because they enjoy the ability to buy carries with out of game cash without being accused of pay to win.
That’s a strawman, I’m not making the argument players shouldn’t be able to buy carries with gold. I’m not saying we should take anything away other than a players ability to spend cash to blizzard for gold then use that gold that they purchased with out of game currency to get carried. I know you can’t make it into mythic raiding in explicit but for those of us who actually push content it diminishes the reward if everyone can get it by throwing out of game cash to blizzard.
It’s been established blizzard didn’t have a problem with selling carries for gold back then, I’ve moved on to other points, points you continue to ignore and dance around. I’m now addressing the fact that back then blizzard wasn’t profiting with cash for gold sales and that this symbiotic system of wow token sales and carry sellers has created an environment which impacted the economy of wow at large. That’s not an accident.
(see what i did there)
Well since you asked so nicely
Yes, but i still disagree with blizzards decision to take out the brutosaur to fish for token sales.
Yeah no problem there you can’t craft any gear that effects the end game anyway.
Depends on the quality, if you’re talking an introductory set nothing higher than say what the professions can craft i don’t think that’s unreasonable. Other games have implemented this and have performed well in that you still feel rewarded for completing end game content. I don’t think players should be able in any form or fashion direct or indirect be able to give blizzard money for gold and then turn that gold into the highest quality gear in the game. I wouldn’t care if it was a Chinese website selling the carry for cash or blizzard entertainment selling the gold used for the carry in cash in my mind both are just as despicable.
Yeah sure, in fact i wish they would bring back the guardian cub it’s kind of silly that it’s worth 500k right now.
No keep going it’s making me look great
Jared get something wrong? never. Clearly you’re too smart for that.
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It’s my opinion that WoW is not pay to win. The community made it pay to win. Blizzard should ban it. However they won’t. They would if the currency could be spent elsewhere. People could sell gift expansions and subs for a smaller fee, sell keys to other people but it always bolsters Blizzards numbers.
Long story short it all goes back into Blizzards wallet, one way or another.
It’s hard to say.
It’s not the same an entering a cash shop and purchasing gear… but the fact that Cash can get you gold, which can then be exchanged for some of the best gear in the game is kinda murky.
It’s certainly a lot less clean than it was before the Token existed. Paying cash for items or gold outright was always against the game rules and those involved were punished when possible. But gear for tokens/gold isn’t in violation of anything.
Good points, it’s not necessarily their individual skills, but the simple fact that their coordination makes a big difference. One or more of their group could even be less skilled than the person getting carried.
You missed the OP’s point that people are literally paying in tokens and via paypal, cashapp, etc, for run spots that net them loot. We literally used to have a player in our old PVP group that would take real world currency of SOME sort to guarantee another player/players slots for loot – then would stack people in the raid that could pass wanted items off to the player as a second, third, fourth chance failsafe. We ended up parting ways with the guy because most of us were not cool with what he was doing. Now, these people who paid would show up geared to the tens and some of them could play to begin with, but most all of them became impossible monsters for the other team to kill. Yeah. … that’s pay to win. It’s not conventional P2W, but it definitely involved a transaction that left the player more capable than without the transaction.
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No I covered it.
Getting carried through a run, and even getting gear from that run does not mean you won anything.
That’s just not how this game works.
Gear is just not anywhere near that important even if it was.
This game is about dedication and progression, not paying to skip it all.
Honestly, I would say you are paying to LOSE if anything.
But its mostly a personal thing.
If you are the kind of person who likes to skip life’s challenges then more power to you. Pay your way around it.
For me, it would be absolutely pointless to do so.
Gear’s not important? Are you playing the game? Go into a BG without gear, let us know how it goes.
Yes I am playing the same game.
Obviously if you are naked you are going to struggle, but the difference between a fully maximized players at 430 item level and a dude who got carried to 450 item level is astronomical.
You can CLEARLY see this in any world first progression race.
People do the raid 30~ item level lower than guilds do it now, and still spend less pulls.
So a ilvl 395 person with more skill is going to out dps a fully geared person?
I like your statement, I never viewed it as hiring a Mercenary, but have a good point.
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That is player created p2w, almost anything can be bought with the right amount of gold once content is on farm.
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How do you win at a MMO anyway?
I mean I don’t think that what’s being discussed by the OP even comes close to being pay to win in the first place, but how, precisely, do you win at a MMO that if you so chose you can play large swaths of it by yourself? What the hell are the victory conditions in paying to win in a MMO?
All the gear in the world doesn’t mean you “win.” If you’re geared and lagging on the meters, then you haven’t won anything.