what is pay to win?
Oh so now the truth comes out! He is argueing because he has a financial stake in it!
Not true. My only definition of winning WoW is obtaining the “Crazy Cat Lady” title. If I have to buy a pet from the Blizz store to make that complete, then this game is P2W. Your definition of winning does not convince me otherwise. 
Blizz NEVER banned people for buying runs in game with gold. Where are you getting this information?
The only thing people were banned for is buying gold from Chinese farmers or selling their accounts. That’s all. No one was banned for buying riad runs or such in any expansion and blizz hasn’t cared that people do that because it doesn’t hurt their game at all, and its no different than rogues selling lock box picking or mages selling portals. You just do not like the concept, and that is fine, but to make all this hullabaloo about it is ridiculous. Your right up there with the people thinking add ons should be banned because you do not like them
By your definition wow has been pay to win for 15 years then…since paid runs have existed that long…
It’s not my definition. It’s Wikipedia’s.
What is your definition of pay-to-win?
Paying the company for them to give you gear that makes you more powerful than other players. That is what P2W games are. You are paying the company for direct advantage in game. No one is paying blizz for the advantage. If anything players are helping other players for gold, as it has been for 15 years, and really in every MMO ever…
7 120s and less than a month.
If Blizz was secretly running many or even most of the carry groups, nothing would change.
But is Blizzard promoting the carries? No. They have NOTHING to do with it at ALL. All they are doing is saying “We are not going to punish players for charging others to run them through.” Which is a good thing, considering if they did that, they could also punish people for getting mage portals. For rogues unlocking boxes, etc. There is no difference, as these players are charging for services. That is all.
I don’t know that, and you don’t either. They may very well be behind many or even most of the carry groups.
Since whether they are or not has no effect on anyone’s game experience, I would say it’s rather meaningless.
There’s a reason pay-to-win has negative implications:
As more people plunge cash into the game to gain advantage, it becomes more and more necessary to do it, just to keep up. Pretty soon you’re spending $300/month to be average, and no one wants that.
This negative cycle of draining everyone’s wallets and no one getting any advantage (because everyone is) is the reason people hate pay-to-win.
Some level of pay-to-win is often necessary in free to play games, but many people think of the subscription fee as a flat rate everyone pays for the guarantee of an equal playing field that won’t degenerate into massive cash advantages.
i mean they do have the wow token that they players buy to pay for carries so they are some what responsible.
paying for m+ runs to up your io score and get loot on tuesday with wow gold from the wow token sales is p2w just a little bit.
it just depends on who you ask shills will always say no.
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Wow…you really need a tinfoil hat for that one…
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To say “I don’t know” I need a tinfoil hat?
To point out that if they are (which they might be) nothing changes?
Look, words exist to describe things. The better they do that, the better they are. If they don’t describe anything, they’re just verbal flatulence.
Your criterion that the cash must be going to the company running the game fails to improve upon the term "pay-to-win"s ability to describe anything about an actual game environment, so it fails there. It also fails because none of us knows whether the cash is going to Blizz or not, and words aren’t meant to be as unknowable as possible - they’re meant to describe the things that we see and convey that information.
Adding a criterion to the definition of pay-to-win that makes the answer to the question, “Is WoW pay-to-win?” unknowable and adds nothing to the ability of the word to describe a game environment is just ruining words (making them useless) so you can win an argument.
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Paying other players gold that you may have gotten from token purchases isn’t pay to win. That’s just pay to stupid. Pay to win would be paying Blizzard money for a box that gives you a high level item directly. That doesn’t happen.
Well mister Lawyerbot, even if I were buying a high-level item from the cash shop, it doesn’t happen directly.
There are indeed steps between me pressing pay now and obtaining that item. Most of them happen by computer, some require input.
I even have to unwrap it, so it doesn’t count as “direct” - so even then, people could lawyer up the definitions like you’re doing now.
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Nothing really to lawyer about… unless the gear is listed in the online store or in gambling crates you have to unlock with a purchase it’s not pay to win. (See Star Trek Online)
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So what changes about the game environment created by the behaviour of buying advantage, just because it’s bought from a different website?
By your definition, STO and WoW could just run each other’s cash shops and then neither would be pay-to-win.
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WoW isn’t pay to win…horribly skilled players however offer all their gold to skilled players because they suck to get carried for some decent gear…they could have all the best gear in-game they would still get wreck…progression raids wont give carries to ppl….any would be buyer wont get their hand on the best stuff until the skilled players does get gear out and 1 carry run isn’t exactly given to ppl wanting to buy…1 carry wont make the buyer be anywhere close to the ppl carrying in term of gear…ofc they could spend like 10000$ during a patch then when next patch come out bye bye best gear because new and stronger gear come out…just a money(token sales)//gold waste for those buying carry as gear with stronger stats gear come out every now and then
nyhow pay-to-win mean an advantage in power…in WoW case ppl that pay cant get on par with skilled players until they’re(skilled players) rdy to carry…and that would take like 2 month later after said players finish they’re progression
simplify is this Skills > Money > bad players for good gear acquiring speed…and Money wont offer anything better than skilled players gets…only extra money does get is mount choice…pet…gear camo(xmog)…nothing affecting the gameplay(most of game shop items are ugly if you ask me XD)
Is this a conspiracy thread now lmao, BEWARE GUYS, BLIZZ IS SECRETLY IN YOUR CARRY RUNS DISGUISED WITHOUT YOU NOTICING.
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