Still amazed at how many short sighted people think gear = winning.
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If tokens didn’t exist I wouldn’t call it P2W at all, even if someone is illegally buying gold. That’s outside of what Blizzard intends, so it’s not really fair to judge the game on that.
I think the classic thing of running people for gold is great.
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Except you won’t win but purchasing runs. These people are not getting World First Mythic Dungeons/Raids or playing in the MDI. Or anything else that is close to actually winning in an open ended MMO game.
Here we go again with the semantics of what winning truly is.
Yes, if your definition of win is having the thottiest armor then paying to get better stats on your gear with less effort won’t mean you’re winning.
That isn’t what the definition of P2W is, though.
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And there is no proof people actually do that.
people would never admit this OP, but yea wow has been P2win since tokens yupp
end goal- gear. gear can be bought on the AH, and the gold can be bought out of pocket. you can DIRECTLY use $$$$ to buy gear, plain and simple
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Lmaoooo
Ok. 
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So intent matters more than “pay 2 win” mechanics on a game being “pay 2 win”?
That doesn’t really make sense.
i find it impressive you are able to hold that level of confidence in blizzard at one of their lowest points in the companies history. I’m not faulting you for it i’m just not as faithful that they will do right by players anymore. Activision treats blizzard like boby kotick treats children on the lolita express and that toxic relationship has a direct effect on us the players.
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Yes it does. Gold selling happens on every game that’s ever existed that has some form of player trading. That doesn’t mean every game is P2W.
I’d be bold enough to say that the definition of “Pay to Win” in an open ended MMO like WoW shifts. You’re not paying to “Win” as there is no “winning”, instead you’re paying for an advantage. @Disglain mentioned that you’re paying for a quicker alternative to quickly farming. And while I personally don’t see that as P2W, I can see how people would label a quick skip as such. For example, Mechagnomes are regarded for having broken talents. If someone boosts and gets carried to 120, then it would be semi-P2W for the PvP scene.
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Even if we use that to say that it is pay to win, I still can’t find myself being able to say that the WoW token is a bad thing. Given that it’s the single most effective tool I’ve ever seen in killing 3rd party gold markets. (I’ve seen many games try many strategies but WoW has been by far the most successful.)
So if we were to all agree that the WoW token makes WoW pay to win (I don’t think it does) then I think a follow up question arises from that: is this amount of pay to win worth what the WoW token does?
Winning is completing the game as part of the top echelon of players. Nothing else.
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Well go ahead provide some proof. I asked the other guy for proof and the conversation ended pretty fast.
And do you have a source for that ? That sounds like a personal definition.
Lol. They’ll have plenty of opportunities to prove me wrong. I’ve been surprised in the past before.
I can respect that. I think WoW tokens are fine, tbh. I also think they’re P2W. It’s not a mutually exclusive thing.
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Their argument is moreso that the game devs aren’t at fault for what their players do when it comes to the gold trade. If I gave my friend 20$ for 200k, Blizzard didn’t play any part in that besides being the platform. That kind of a moneytrade wouldn’t be on the devs at all. That is outside of their control. They can only say that they don’t like the idea of buying gold from gold sellers, or banning players when they admit to it.
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Get off your throwaway character first.
The classic definition of “win.”
Maybe that concept is lost in a participation trophy world. What people are paying for is to participate.