Something doesn’t become notP2W just because the player based economy is involved, though. WoWtokens have a flat $20 fee that goes to Blizzard.
You’ve assigned this arbitrary rule to it about player economy not being able to be involved whatsoever.
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That is an interesting point of view and it’s true nobody really accuses the world first guilds of paying to win but the truth is if they want that competitive edge over all the other guilds in the world aiming for world firsts then they should be dropping lots of gold on boes ect which usually the guilds can cover because they are the ones who do the carrying. If blizzard really wants to allow this type of pay to win they should take the pricing out of the hands of players and just make it so you can purchase a box that drops gear from the raid you are trying to buy the carry from because the way they have it gives an insane gold advantage to those capable of carrying and setting the prices early on in a patch which allows them to snowball into the next patch so on so forth.
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Thanos meme: I used the pay to win to destroy the pay to win.
The fee doesn’t all go to Blizzard. If the player turns in the token for WoW Time, then yes it does. But you can also turn it in for Blizzard Balance, in which only a portion of it goes back to WoW until you spend that Blizzard Balance. Regardless, in buying a token, you’re saving someone else’s wallet, meaning that Blizzard still isn’t making as much money as they could through this system.
I will admit that you’re putting up some amazing points. And I honestly can’t tell who’s “right” between us here. Good points, mate, good points.
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Y’know I’m happy to agree to disagree, or even agree to shrug.
You had interesting things to say as well! I appreciate your attitude.
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Lots of people treat arguments like " I HAVE TO WIN. " But, like, the great thing about being a living person is that we’re all different. And while our differences can bring us to major clashes, it still keeps us different. We wouldn’t have much to live for if we all held the same mindsets.
I really enjoyed discussin’ this stuff with you, friendo. Keep up the good work in your future arguments!
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If buying runs is all that is needed for “Pay to Win” then the game has been so since Vanilla. Run selling isn’t some new concept and has always existed within the game.
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Honestly, given how much pure gold was created from nothing during WoD, I have to wonder how long it will take before things settle down and if selling runs will become less of a commonplace sight.
Even the brutosaur mount only needed to be purchased once per account and the people who that gold sink was created for have way more than 5 million gold.
Well, you do have to pay (in gold or cash) to be able to have an active sub so you are able to win, so it’s a pay to be able to win game? 
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Yeah except my biggest concern is that blizzard would actually do what i posted. If blizzard tried to implement a “gotcha” system into their game where you are pulling the lever for gear drops from them players would go crazy across the board i don’t see what players look at buying runs from guild leaders any different.
It’s buying tokens to buy gold to buy runs.
Yup pay to win. Nothing but sellers in game selling for real money. That’s the kind of game i wanted to make.
There are still players with game time left over from wow tokens purchased with the WoD mission table. Blizzard should completely remove the mission table and the only reason they haven’t is to keep their mobile companion app on the market.
People were buying gold to buy runs in Vanilla. The only difference today is Blizzard is getting a part of that action.
I really wish they’d remove the mission tables too. I miss the old app.
I would argue that they’re always going to be popular, especially with the ability to purchase WoW Tokens.
My reasoning for this is Classic. You’re unable to buy WoW Tokens in Classic, and yet I still see Carry runs all the time in general chats and trade chat.
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So what your saying is blizzard is pay to win?
Yes, that’s why it’s P2W and not just “people cheating”.
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No, the differences are two fold
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Blizzard’s attitude has shifted because they are getting a piece of the pie now.
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That attitude change shifted the entire player bases’ attitude on purchasing runs. Did they exist since vanilla? yes. Were players who purchased runs laughed at, mocked ridiculed back then. Yes. Now a days you get mocked for saying buying runs is pay to win and that’s directly because blizzard stepped in and decided to make it okay.
The social stigma toward carries has shifted. Whether you enjoy that shift or not is up to the individual i for one do not.
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Optimistically I don’t think even Blizzard is that stupid. Right now the biggest safeguard we have in that regard is that the world first competition is technically purely community run and not an officially endorsed Blizzard competition. Albeit a very large and universally recognized community competition. If Blizzard ever did want to get in on a slice of that pie there’s a whole bevy of changes they’d have to make first. (Staggered release times for the raid in different regions would suddenly be a no-go for instance. And that’s just one example.)
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