wow isn’t p2w because I’m defining that phrase in such a way that it doesn’t include wow.
You don’t HAVE to pay cash to be good
There’s no WINNING an mmo.
P2W is only win you spend currency A on power. Not when you buy power with B which you bought with A.
That’s just not in the definition of p2w the way I choose to use it. Checkmate.
Be creative and give it a custom name.
Stop trying to repurpose something with a different definition to try and spark fake outrage.
Ok how about instead of P2W, we call it P2L because regardless of how many people buy their KSM/Glad titles, they still lose at the end of the day by playing this dead P2W MMO.
pay to progress
more like wow is converting into a mobile game to sell to china
Just like how they allowed us to purchase the legendary base items for gold knowing full well most players do not have that kind of coin. It’s to incentivize people to pay for tokens lol.
I really don’t understand why people are flaming you.
Because its the internet. If people disagree with you, they want you to shut up instead of discussing.
Define P2W 
People are selling carries in trade for gold.
I do not have such gold.
I pay $20 (real money), for a token so I can get said gold.
I pay for the carry and get what I need faster than someone who doesn’t do the same thing.
Did I get it right?
It’s different for everyone.
Let’s say Blizz puts BiS gear on the cash shop, I buy it, what did I win? I still can’t solo M Legion raids
https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/720677865720381560.png?size=64&v=1
Lmfaooo thats good
While I do wish Blizzard would put their foot down on paid carries (even in-game gold) because it’s become far too prevalent in comparison to people progressing naturally due to Crossrealm Grouping + WoW Tokens making payment regardless of server a non-issue…
It’s not a matter of “P2W”. P2W is the game having built in dev-supported means of spending real money to gain a direct advantage in-game. We can’t buy achievements from Blizzard. We can’t buy gear from Blizzard. Anything you can get by spending real money (Token -> Gold) is between you and another player.
I’m not gonna go as far as saying buying gold doesn’t have any impact, but it’s indirect and limited. It’s a bigger issue because of how easily accessible carries affects how the game is played, not because you’re buying an advantage.
No. A pay to win game is one where you HAVE to pay to be able to win.
If the only way you can win in WoW is by paying for carries you’re BAD. That’s all it is. Either get good, cough up the gold, or play a different game. Go take a look at Black Desert Online if you want to know what P2W actually looks like.
The difference here, is that you are wrong. You did not get what you needed faster than anyone. In fact, you were one of the last people out of the rush if someone is charging you for carries.
People don’t sell carries until they have enough experience with the new mechanics, pathing, and the gear required to carry short falls. Because of this, it usually takes a good while before you’re able to buy 15s and such.
In a P2W game you would be eligible to boost a character to 60 and get KSM the very first day the game comes out. You guys have no idea what P2W looks like and think that just because you have to pay others for content, that it’s P2W.
You’re not winning anything. I don’t think people who pay for carries realize how quickly groups jump on talking smack about your carried io in disc. We know when you paid for it.
You saying this completely invalidates your opinion on this entire topic.
Your entire experience in this game comes for 1.8k in RBGs which can be bought with 3 WoW tokens, pretty much in the next couple years they will just skip this step and sell rating outright.
Stop trying to defend the greediest developer in the market, this game is nothing but P2W at higher levels and not being able to admit that is being willfully ignorant.
No. P2W means that gear/power is EXCLUSIVELY attained by paying the company.
Right now you have the OPTION to pay other players to boost you, but that’s not the EXCLUSIVE way to do so.
No. That’s YOUR defintion of it.
Defintions of things can and will change depending on new situations that arise, what we have now is instead of them selling direct power, they created a system that makes gaining power the only goal for doing content and a means to pay other people to get that content done.
In a PvP environment, at the 1.2k bracket fighting someone double your HP and DPS while his partner has your HP is 100% P2W regardless of how many mental gymnastics you want to jump through.
have you considered that maybe its your attitude that is the problem? Blame Blizzard all you want, but its players like you that insult others for trying to improve and play themselves that is stimulating this carry economy.
If I was a new player that had zero idea on where to begin, I would succumb very quickly to paid carries if people were too busy insulting me for being behind to allow me the space to learn and grow.
Maybe one day you’ll get good enough at this game to realize that players buying carries isnt hurting your experience at all. To me, it sounds like you’re upset that no one wants to play with you unless you pay for it.
No it is 100% P2W.
Just because you’re a Self Improvement Andy doesn’t suddenly invalidate the thousands of people before you that have seen how garbage this system is and are actively leaving feedback in the form of unsubscribing.
Maybe one day leeching info from 3k players might help you break out of Rival, but realistically speaking most people have no interest in climbing a dead MMO that incentives gear > skill especially at the lowest brackets where your 3k friends farm undergeared kids for gold/$$$.
That’s where the term came from. Companies where you HAD to buy items/loot boxes/packs with real money, from the company, in order to get the highest level power. There was no other source or way to earn that power level.
If people want to expand that, it’s on them - but it’s disingenuous to the roots of “Pay to Win”.
In any environment - if you don’t NEED to pay money for power, it’s NOT pay-to-win.