Is this how we get Night Elf Shamans?

Lore Story Forum
102

You’re speaking in a commercial venue. You don’t get to gatekeep responses unless you own the venue. And every time you misrepresent yourself as anyone but yourself, I will call you on it.

I have never and will never claim to represent anyone but myself, that my opinions are strictly my own. I encourage people who dislike my opinions that much to reinforce their bubble by ignoring me and unlike some, I don’t complicate such moves by making my profile hidden.

And unlike you, I don’t get bent out of shape by people who disagree with me.

1 Like
103

This preview image… Nelves have really ugly ears. Compared to Belf especially
Troll heritage i guess

1 Like
104

That’s D&D and Pathfinder.

Not WoW.

In WoW the lore is specifically designed in such a way that Undead Paladins are a rarity. While it is true that they can use Paladin abilities, to do so is extremely painful for them and unlike Holy Priests, who feel the same pain, Paladins cannot ‘turn off’ the light and choose not to use it.

The way it has been described in lore is that the light touching their bodies feels like someone is burning them with fire. Now imagine that fire is internal, coursing through their veins at all times. That is how it would feel to be an undead Paladin. Could a Forsaken do it? Yes, but that pain, combined with the other effects that use of the light has on a Forsaken, which includes the awakening of dead senses such as touch, taste and smell, means that few have the willpower to take that path.

Blizzard would need to stretch the lore to an extreme degree to allow Forsaken Paladins, and quite frankly, I don’t see them doing it. They (the Blizzard devs) have said they want to move closer to an all classes/all races future, which I think is stupid, but even they’ve said that some combinations won’t be happening, not without some serious story/lore changes.

105

Doesn’t it shut off when they lose faith? It’s why Tirion Fordring thought he had been stripped of his powers - he believed it had happened, therefore it was until he summoned the determination for it to “click on” again.

I don’t see why forsaken paladins can’t work the same way. But instead of them being eternal glowing suns like normal paladins, they could be more of a “flickering lightbulb” where most of the time they’re effectively not paladins at all due to stress, misery, etc.

Then in dire times, they could muster moments of extreme will (of the forsaken) to fight through the pain. It’d be kinda like a zombie fantasy version of a self-flagellating Catholic monk.

1 Like
106

Okay, yes, if a Paladin loses their will to summon the light, because they believe they’re unworthy, they have inner doubts or in Tirion’s case, he feels as if he was literally cut off, yes, a Paladin can loses the ability to channel the light.

But think about what you’re saying there.

Willpower/belief/faith isn’t a switch that you can turn on and off at will. A paladin can’t just decide ‘Oh I don’t have the will to manifest the light at this precise moment’ like it’s as simple as not wanting to get out of bed in the morning.

107

Oh it wouldn’t be an intentional, conscious thing. More of a fight-or-flight, adrenaline rush equivalent. And forsaken are hella mentally damaged as a whole; even the happiest ones are (or should be) pushing against a neverending magically-induced depression, magnified by trauma and fear of their own former religion. It’s why I think the prospect of one that pushes through all of that to call on the light anyway can be an awesome idea.

I know it’s all fanon on my part, but I think it’s the closest that makes the concept work without bending the lore for either forsaken or paladins themselves, while simultaneously being in-line with the general trope inversion that horde races are generally supposed to benefit from.

108

Tirion’s inner doubts came from Uther booting him out of the Silver Hand for sparing Eltrigg. And they came back when the Scarlets turned on his son, and he realised that they were part of the evil he took vows to fight.

109

Not quite. Close though.

In ‘Of Blood and Honor’ which unfortunately has been retconned in a few places, Tirion loses his ability to use the Light, at least temporarily, because he believes that his superior, Uther, has cut him off from it, which is what Uther did during his trial. However after Tirion prevents Eitrigg from being killed at Stratholme, he attempts to heal Eitrigg to save his life and through his own will and belief that he still had the power, was able to use the light to heal him. He used those powers at the first Battle of Light’s Hope Chapel, when Kel’thuzad laid siege to the place, which is also when Darion Mograine impaled himself with the Ashbringer and became a Death Knight.

When we encounter him in the Eastern Plaguelands, he is still very much a paladin, able to wield the light just as before. Our efforts doing that quest chain for him were not to rekindle his own willpower, but to provide him the items he’d need to get his son free from the Scarlet Crusade. Ultimately he succeeded and his son renounced the Crusade, only to be killed by Grand Inquisitor Isillien, whom Tirion then killed in turn in an act of revenge. He then swore over his son’s body that he’d rebuild the Order of the Silver Hand to combat the evils of the world, essentially meaning he was coming out of exile for good. No more hiding.

It’s unclear when exactly he took command of the Silver Hand, but it happened before the Naxrammas raid, since Commander Eligor Dawnbringer mentions Lord Fordring by name and his knights in a conversation with Scarlet Commander Marjhan when she and the other members of the Scarlet Crusade were present there to help put down Kel’thuzad and the Scourge.

110

Undead paladins are fine.

Eg 1: I hate you so much that I’ll burn myself to kill you.

Eg 2: I love you so much that I will burn myself to save you.

Works for the two extremes forsaken can represent.

1 Like
111

Shamans are one of the few playable classes that has not been touched by elves.

I would very much rather it stay that way.

3 Likes
112

Paladins in general are a rarity. Very few poesess the combination of strength, stamina, and faith to do what they do. An Undead Paladin would need to have all three pretty much to the max.

113

No, they’re not.

There’s more to just the physical pain associated with light use and undead. Yes, that’s the primary downside, which is worse than priests, because when a priest uses the light it is like a torch. You can turn it off and on, so it’s like a fire they can put out whenever they choose. Paladins do not have that same benefit. For them the torch is always on, so imagine a pain like fire coursing through your veins every moment of every day. That is what a Forsaken Paladin would go through.

But the more part is equally bothersome. See, when an undead dies and is reanimated they do not have certain senses returned to them. Their sense of taste is completely gone, as is their ability to feel as their nerves are dead and their ability to smell is non-existent. All of those senses return when they start using light magic. The ability to feel returns first, starting with the pain, but then it gradually gets worse. If they’ve got carrion beetles or rats in their body, gnawing at their dead flesh, they’ll start to feel that, and I don’t know about you, but I hate the feeling of insects crawling on me, I don’t know if I’d be able to deal with insects crawling IN me.

Then their sense of smell and taste returns, so suddenly they begin to smell all the rot and decay they exude, as well as the rot and decay of the places they live in, such as the Undercity. Places like the Undercity reek to high heavens of rot and decay (not to mention the smell of all the green alchemical discharge that makes up the canal ‘water’) so now they get to smell all of that. And finally their sense of taste returns, so if their mouths are full of rot, filth and decay, as is expected given that they’re undead (and I’m 99% sure dental/mouth hygiene isn’t on their priority list) then they start to taste that.

I don’t know what that would feel like, but I imagine if I started tasting rot and decay I’d want to gag and throw up.

So imagine you’re going through all of that. The pain, the ability to smell and taste rot and decay and the feeling of carrion beetles, rats and worms in your body eating at you. Then imagine you can turn all that off if you just refuse to use the light, if you decide “Nope, don’t want to be a Paladin or a Holy Priest, screw that!”

And now you might get an idea why the majority of Forsaken priests are Shadow Priests and why there are no Forsaken Paladins.

114

Absolutely none of this as far as I know is supported by anything other than fan lore.

115

Zeliek rode by my house to tell me that Carhagen is wrong.

116

Like the person in the video said, if what was said between Elune and the Winter Queen got out, there’d be a heck of a wave of desertion from the Elunite church when it comes out that not only did she do nothing to save her “children” during the Thorn War, but Elune deliberately let Teldrassil happen in order to give her sister a Revendreth style anima boost and those souls instead took an express trip to the Maw.

Most of them probably won’t go primalists, but the Sisterhood should be getting a blow that it’s not going to just walk off. But if there is going to be an opening for Night Elf Shamans who aren’t primalists, this would be it.

I wonder if their rights of initiation include a self scouring that removes all hair from the body… like the Technomages of Bablyon 5.

It wouldn’t impact Drahliana quite as much as she’s always been much more a follower of Cenarius and the Wild Gods, than of Elune.

1 Like
117

Ask CDev Round 2

Are there long-term effects on an undead who is in regular contact with the Holy Light in a positive way?

It is difficult to say, as there are no known records of undead wielding the Holy Light before the Third War. There are reports, however, that some Forsaken have slowly experienced a sharpening of their dulled senses of touch, smell, etc., as well as an increase in the flashes of positive emotions that have otherwise become so rare since their fall into undeath. Unfortunately, this may be the cause of the Forsaken priesthood’s increased attempts at self-destruction; regaining these senses would force the priests to smell their own rotting flesh, taste the decay in their mouths and throats, and even feel the maggots burrowing within their bodies.

Since it hasn’t been retconned as of yet, that answer is still very much canon, so yes, undead do have their senses reawaken as they continue to get exposed to and use the Holy Light.

119

Cenarius’ tether to the Kaldorei partly is the fact Elune is his mother though, imo. He’s not necessarily riding off her coat-tails though but he does def piggy back off being the divine son of their own mother goddess, making him a kin of sorts.

120

Mind you, the Horde had Shaman that used wind magics to raise up the flames to spread the magical payloads flames higher & more ferociously.

Shaman: “Hmm I don’t know, this seems wrong. Even the elements would disagr-”
Elemental Spirits: “Doit.”
Shaman: “Wh… What?”
Elemental Spirits: "It’ll pay off in the long run. Out of Elune’s arms and into ours. :slight_smile: "
Shaman: "Well … Aight then. :eyes: "

121

This is kind of my view of it too. We all assume that lifting the restrictions on race/class combinations will lead to even greater varieties of self-expression from the players. But I’ve always had the worry that the exact opposite would happen, and we’d get a broad swathe of players going “Fantastic! Now there’s never a reason to NOT be a blood elf!”

I respect shamans as they are now as a kind of get-out-of-your-comfort-zone class. No chickening out and playing a Stormwind human. Your character has daily conversations with ghosts and rocks, so they’re going to be something weird.

3 Likes
122

As much as I dislike seeing the relative overpopulation of elves being played, I’d be a hypocrite if I started championing a “no shaman” stance. People are going to like what they like, and pretty is popular for a reason.

I’d certainly hope that elf shaman NPCs don’t overtake other races in importance, but I don’t think it’s good for players to be denied their preferred combos because the aesthetics and gameplay don’t line up. I had to put up with that for 15 years, so I know how aggravating it can be.

3 Likes