I’m sure most people want this, the issue is how they are implementing it.
no coherent argument
?
“I want this civilization to be comprised solely of warcraft three units and not be written as actual people - nobody is allowed to explore external connections”
No one said this. Night elves HAVE been exploring external connections, there have been Kaldorei apprentices seeking to learn from the Highborne. There have been demon hunters, warlocks, necromancers. There have been plenty of Night Elves seeking to explore things that go against their culture’s norm, because they aren’t robots and do not have to adhere to that culture if they so wished. However, just because some individuals may branch off to go explore something else, that doesn’t change the fact that the culture itself remains intact, which it will for a long time as Kaldorei are extremely slow to change culturally. Individual night elves can do as they please, but those that adhere to their culture and are traditionalists would not care much if at all and are far less likely to pursue paths that go against the norm.
Most normal people would find a Night Elf who went off and discovered shamanism (from their many shamanistic races whom they have been allied with FOR YEARS) to be a rare and interesting concept worthy of deeper exploration
Mmm yes, i too believe that it’s always a good idea to frame the opposing side as “irrational” “insane” or otherwise “not normal”. That aside, just because X is allied to Y, that doesn’t mean Y’s going to learn from X.
TL;DR who asked - maybe next time don’t come in here and frame your opposition unfoundedly as “not normal people” and dismiss their entire arguments as incoherent and completely miss their point
Ok so you agree, good got it.
Except that i do not. Night Elves should not be shamans because if they’re a playable class, that implies that there are enough of them to where it is viable and that their culture has changed in the game to support it. Their training would have to be done and/or supported by the good guys, not the villains. primarily the actual Kaldorei themselves.
A group of Kaldorei becoming shamans does not justify the entire playable race getting them. By this logic, Draenei Warlocks should be a thing because of the Sargerai in the AU. Highmountain Tauren Warlocks should be a thing because of the Feltotem, so on and so forth. Night elven Warlocks should be a thing because of those Kaldorei that had joined the Shadow Council, etcera.
Class/race restrictions can always be lifted, it just has to make sense and fall in line with the race’s history. In the context of the Kaldorei becoming shamans, there’d have to be more than just the Primalists.
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…
Okay, nevermind what i said.
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When’s the last time you saw an Orc Mage of literally any importance? There’s like, one, in the Dragon Soul raid, and that’s stretching the definition of importance. There does not have to be a cultural organization for every race/class combo, and there isn’t.
The PC is already a special snowflake. If a race can become a class, they should be allowed to. Simple as.
And yes, Night Elves should also be able to play as warlocks. Why not? Because they don’t like them? Nobody does, that’s the point of warlocks.
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Correct, there is no cultural organization for every race/class combo. EG: Rogues can literally just be average pick pockets, anyone can pick up a sword and learn how to be a warrior. Hunters? Learn archery, survival skills, and build a really, really good kinship with one and/or more beasts. However, those are just rogues and warriors and hunters. Anyone can rob and anyone can swing a sword and anyone can learn how to survive in the wild or learn how to tame an animal. But to be a shaman, the elementals have to let you use their power to begin with. If they change their culture to adopt shamanism as a whole in addition to the whole Elune/druidism stuff or at the very least a large enough voice to where Tyrande & Malfurion (if he doesn’t die/go away that is) are like “fine”, the elementals would first have to accept them in the first place.
“if a race can become a class, they should be allowed to. Simple as.” The lore and story should not be ignored or tossed to the side like garbage simply because it
is ‘possible.’ Race/class combos can be lifted if there’s lore to support it or if it’s feasible but Blizzard shouldn’t lift them just because ‘it’s possible’. There should be lore added and developed in a sensible fashion rather than something like Zovaal the Jailer about Y class being introduced into X race without Y class.
If the Night Elves become shamans, their culture should change in the game/the lore to reflect this which hasn’t happened yet. They are slow to change and do not do so easily, considering that they only just recently lifted the ban upon arcane sorcery and reintroduced the Highborne back into society after banning both thousands of years ago.
As it stands, there’s nothing in the traditional Kaldorei society to support them because why be a shaman when you could just be a druid? However, if new lore gets developed that showcases the Night Elves turning into a ‘them’ thing somehow (eg; Taurens with Paladins), fine. That hasn’t happened yet however. And i’m not talking just about Elune’s connection with the element of water and the Druid’s limited command over elemental energies - i’m talking about them embracing all the elements - fire, earth, air and water - And correct, there is no cultural organization for every race/class combo. EG: Rogues can literally just be average pick pockets, anyone can pick up a sword and learn how to be a warrior. Hunters? Learn archery, survival skills, and build a really, really good kinship with one or more beasts.
Also, Night Elves despise fel magic with an absolute burning passion, they’ve had absolutely no good interactions with stuff like the Burning Legion. Demon Hunters were only tolerated by Tyrande because she viewed them as a weapon against the Legion/demons and nothing else that they sorely needed because the situation was dire enough to necessitate their release. which the demon hunters as they have often said sacrificed everything in order to become the absolute foremost demonslaying experts. They don’t summon more demons, they kill them and make them go away. There is a difference between a group of Night Elves adopting warlock magic, versus enough of their race doing so to the point it makes sense to make the class be available. Warlock magic clashes ENTIRELY with their cultural identity, and as it stands it makes no sense for them to become warlocks considering their multiple confrontations with the Burning Legion.
TL;DR
cultural organizations for every class/race combo do not exist, yet there’s more to it than that when it comes to the elements, the lore should be taken into consideration and developed to accomodate/allow something rather than ‘it’s possible’ and night elves have every reason to despise warlocks and kill them/exile them, they have had more bad interactions with fel than good ones
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The “lore” is that anyone can be a shaman if the elementals deem so, and the rules by which the elementals deem so are vague and basically non-existent.
Why should it? This is a made up standard. Some Night Elves decide to be Shamans cuz some Draenei they helped taught them. Woops, big deal. Doesn’t have to be anything more. Could be, if they wanted, would be neat, but the idea that it must be is entirely a creation of the playerbase, not the lore.
As I said, Orc culture has budged exactly 0% to account for Orc mages, but they exist, and it’s not really a big deal.
Everything you have said about Night Elf Warlocks could be said about Orc warlocks and human warlocks - yet, they remain. Because the very concept of warlock, as a class, is to be outcast.
Night Elves have “every reason” to despite mages, they have had more bad interactions with arcane than good…and yet…
When I say “no coherent argument” this is what I mean. It is always some invented standard, inconsistent with everything else.
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I’m for night elf shamans, but only if they remove the other class restrictions as well, give every race all classes outside of DH and Evoker. As these are so far the only classes that’s actually somewhat limited in lore to what races.
Yes, that even includes warlock for MG and LFD, no reason why not, anyone can become a warlock, and it’s not like the skin turned green the instant even a drop of fel touches an orc. And we even have a demon turned lightforged, no reason why we can’t have it in reverse.
Druids for everyone too, no reason why gnomes can’t get in touch with nature or the undead.
Don’t you mean the Firelands? Fire Elementals normally return there so why shouldn’t the same go for Druids of the Flame?
Nah these are obsessed nasty rebels who need to be put down as an evil faction, because they are obsessed with “revenge”
The Firelands was meant as a Prison for Fire Elementals and you don’t think they shouldn’t be imprisoned in the Prison for Fire Elementals?
Not only did Elune agree with and grant Tyrande the power before taking it back at the last second to spare the mass murderer of her “favored children”. She condemned Tyrande by not removing the Night Warrior’s power entirely, leaving the rescue of Tyrande’s life up to the player and former Night Warrior’s. If we didn’t do that, Tyrande would have died and Elune was seemingly fine with this.
Strange how destructive gods like Sargeras or N’zoth value their followers more than Elune. I guess shining a few moon rays is enough for many Night Elves.
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This wouldn’t be how you’d get playable night elf shamans. You aren’t joining the enemies you’re killing.
They should really just let everyone be everything. This game’s world isn’t really one worthy of respecting anyway, so just go ham. Let Forsaken be druids, who cares? It’s not like Blizzard won’t retcon anything and everything at the drop of a hat, there’s no rhyme or reason to whatever they write.
All of which is to say, yes let night elves be shamans.
Though Dreadmoore is right that this wouldn’t be the entry, they’re antagonists.
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They should open up all races and class customizations for players but they should make it clear this for players only. Players are the special snowflakes different from everyone else.
The NPCs should remain what the stereotype racial class combinations are.
Same thing with skin and hair and any other physical look of certain races… for example LF Draenei NPCs should always have silver skin and white hair. But the player? If they want give them a black skin and orange hair. Who cares?
The only restriction should be absurd color skins or hair like neon pink skin with neon yellow hair. Then the fantasy is a clown show.
Yeah, but once the Primalists are defeated, the remnants can be recruited back into the Alliance or Horde.
This is like, the third time I’ve seen you have an issue with black skin in WoW.
Can I shapeshift into ghostwolf to do my damage instead? If so I am on board. Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.
Why not have nelf shamans, it could happen.
I guess us Nelf druids will just have to go along for the Elune ride.
I am literally asking for the black skin to be an option. Take a moment and read.
For players only, cause having it on NPC’s is too-immersion breaking for you.