oh heck no they don’t.
In my opinion they’re very challenging as they are now. Not every class going solo in them is having the same experience. My hunter struggles to do anything more than an 8. Haven’t done it on my ret pally, but I’ll guess she’ll do much better.
1 Like
I was referring to the delves that offer rewards, >8 isn’t relevant to this discussion.
It’s just conjecture but during this weeks interviews Ion made it a point to say that they were very aware of how awkward the transition from delves to M+ was this season because of the mismatched difficulty/reward structure. To wit, the most efficient way to resolve this is to either buff the rewards you get from lower level M+ keys or nerf the rewards you get from higher delve tiers. Obviously players are assuming the worst because that’s what usually ends up happening.
While true, the situation you describe is more the result of the extreme aversion most players have to failure and the insane lengths they go to in order to ensure that a run is successful. Something that’s further compounded by the excessive difficulty of M+ and the timer component. If you took out external resources like IO and the in-game rating equivalent and left it so that the only indicator was the player’s ilvl, like it was originally back in Legion, the entire system will be much less problematic. Will there be more failed keys as a result? Perhaps, but the system won’t be nearly as toxic and participation will increase dramatically.
1 Like
Rating is a third-party thing that Blizzard incorporated due to demand.
If you can see what people have done, rating will be around.
If you can’t, they’ll go to achievements.
If there are no achievements, well, I guess that works… actually no, we’ll go to gear next.
But they also said they are happy with where delve rewards are.
Are we going to take everything they said at face value? Or just cherry pick for doomsaying?
Heck yeah n power to them.
It would be a net loss to lose the playerbase they garnered through them.
Raid or die was put to bed in Legion.
They’ve been trying to railroad you into M+ ever since.
1 Like
Like I said, it’s all conjecture at this point but it’s player experience that informs the “doomsaying” (not whatever Ion says or doesn’t say) because those of us who have played this game for 20 years have seen this movie before.
Not even that, they’re just desperate to get you to stay on the endless hamster wheel and to achieve that they’re having to make content harder and harder and more and more of a grind because the time between new content releases is getting progressively longer while the actual content is increasingly smaller. That’s the whole purpose of different difficulties: artificial replayability.
1 Like
The 619 cap is fine, its just that you can run Tier 8 delves in 580 gear, so there is no progression other than doing tier 8 delves over and over and over.
They need to make the tiers 4-11 have an actual progression. Currently they do not.
The difficulty of a tier 8 delve right now should be found in a Tier 4-5 delve, and the difficulty should go up from there. Get gear, do a higher delve tier, to unlock better gear to do an even higher delve tier etc.
Running T8 over and over is not progression and that is the problem.
2 Likes
That is a great solution, and definitely a problem regarding not having progression past doing T8. I hope blizz sees this and thinks on it at least.
Endgame reward pillars need to be balanced - e.g. if mythic raids gave heroic level loot, players would need to run high end M+ for progression rather than raid - this would be silly (many players however choose to participate in all endgame pillars).
Similarly, delve rewards are too easy to obtain requisite their difficulty currently - this endgame pillar isn’t balanced with the other PvE endgame pillars. It can stand on it’s own and these players don’t need to do M+, but either delve difficulty needs to be increased significantly or rewards need nerfing.
Balancing delves isn’t undervaluing them as an endgame pillar, it’s treating them as a proper one - that’s a good thing.
Hope that helps!
1 Like
I think if anything needs more players it’s the +2 to +6 range of keys.
This isn’t one of those “the 1% is trying to ruin Delves for everyone else” situations everyone pretends exists. People like me don’t engage with those key levels. This is quite literally a “Delves are so much more rewarding than low M+ keys that M+ just has an enormous barrier of entry because the real +2 key is a +7 key which was a +17 key in older seasons.”
FWIW I wouldn’t hate Delves being nerfed but I don’t think they should be nerfed.
2 Likes
Raiders already run m+ because m+ gives too much loot.
delves were advertised before they came out as an alternative for players to experience some dungeon lore and get some gear without doing m+ , for players who are not comfortable in the m+ environment, now all of a sudden delves and m+ is intertwined, this problem is created by the m+ players using the delves to bypass lower keys, this is not a problem created by the casuals and solo players but i am pretty sure they will be the ones who suffer for it.
4 Likes
I wouldn’t do mythics now if you paid me
2 Likes
Not needed, but go make your own key, are you personally going to just invite whoever shows up or are you going to wait a min or two and inv the highest ivl/io?
Just buff m+ rewards
Blizz did it to themselves by squishing M+ run t8 delve get champion gear must run what 7s or 8s to get heroic gear and the insane amount of 1 shot aoe at that point nuts
1 Like
I feel the end game in Wow is very outdated, we have been doing this raid/m+ hamster wheel for awhile now. Nerf delve loot buff m+, what does it really matter?
In coming weeks/months new season but same old hamster wheel. There will be groups of players that feel their preferred method of playing wow is somehow ruined by how some other group prefers to play.
I haven’t bothered in M+ since dragon s 4 just don’t have the urge to continue doing the same ole crap, different rotations of old burnt out dungeons. Delves are just the new hamster wheel for a solo player which may fizzle out soon enough. Oh well end of the day it’s a game not a lifestyle, play or don’t 