That was in the voice of Anduin, Jaina, and the Alliance’s perspective. I think that was in an intro to their Alliance portion. I would have to find the exact quote. But if I remember correctly, it was after a transition into Alliance motivations.
It was prefaced with something akin to : and then on the Alliance, we have…
It was at Blizzcon, at which point i think they maybe had not realized just how unhappy people were with the story.
I still don’t think they have grasped how unhappy people are.
I believe they are starting to realize it, but think damage control is still an option.
People are confused about what fascism means. It’s not just a regime with a dictator, it’s when a nation is organized around the state apparatus to an extreme degree, in service of a sense of national (and typically racial) unity. Fascist states are xenophobic and homogenous.
If you want to know what a fascist state looks like in fantasy fiction look at the Empire/First Order in Star Wars. In WoW, Garrosh certainly was heading towards fascism, which is why his ideal Horde was made up only of orcs (and possibly tauren).
The current Horde is not fascistic, though Sylvanas herself is the object of a personality cult among the Forsaken. In terms of her politics, though, she’s more of an old-fashioned evil despot. Her government isn’t nearly organized enough to even attempt fascism, and the Horde is way too heterogeneous.
Fascism is the power of finance capital itself. It is the organization of terrorist vengeance against the working class and the revolutionary section of the peasantry and intelligentsia. In foreign policy, fascism is jingoism in its most brutal form, fomenting bestial hatred of other nations… The development of fascism, and the fascist dictatorship itself, assume different forms in different countries, according to historical, social and economic conditions and to the national peculiarities, and the international position of the given country.
Dude, cite your (in this case Marxist) sources.
They never would have had that lore stream if they understood how poorly the story’s being received.
I Googled it and found it attributed to Georgi Dimitrov.
Is it, though? I can’t find anyone complaining about the story on YouTube, for instance, although there’s plenty of complaining about (say) Azerite gear.
And anecdotally, the friend who convinced me to play Horde was just going on about how “interesting” it was to follow Vol’jin’s spirit around and have all the death entities say they didn’t appoint Sylvanas warchief. --Of course, said friend is convinced that this isn’t the real Sylvanas we’re dealing with, so she may be in for a disappointment in a future patch.
That is a very fair point. Most of the big names in the WoW fandom (subjectively perhaps) seem to be reacting well. The caustic attitudes towards the plot seem to be largely concentrated on Reddit and the Forums… and frankly, that’s not really a majority of the playerbase.
I think I misspoke. Satisfied customers don’t come online to whine.
ya it’s dimitrov i just copy and pasted it when scrolling the wikipedia
i thought it was the best one.
The same one where they 69 about how awesome cinematics are?
Here’s the problem though, Sylvanas has done evil since WC3, and has done a great number of acts regarding biological warfare , torture, mind-control and everything horrible since forever. If you’re that much a fan of Sylvanas you wouldve seen that…theres no villain bat, shes always been a villain.
Also I am also latino and used to gravitate towards the Horde due to the treatment of minoritirs in the US and not fitting in and stuff but, I gravitate towards the Alliance now because the Horde has always been evil and horrible only in the short lived periods under Thrall and Vol’jin have they not been outright genocidal. And I understand the value of keeping power in the hands of those who can use it properly. I cant say I need to be Horde because I sorta maybe identify with the vaguely minortity undertones of it, because in WoW’s universe, racism doesnt exist like in the real world. Racism works woth races in the real world, in WoW is more like species-ism, and these species ACTUALLY follow stereotypes.
Also Thrall was only so forward thinking because of his teaching of human values. Albeit thru slavery but he tried to make the Horde more like the Alliance, and Vol’jin followed those ideals like him, subconsciously maybe, but still.
A core part of Fascism is the inability to question the government.
The Horde allows anyone to challenge it’s leader.
Alliance with it’s hereditary monarchies and immortal leaders is more fascist.
But I’m sure you could say BFA Horde is fascist, since Blizzard is writing them as evil scum they want Horde players to hate.
I would agree with you Pete but the only “questioning of leadership” the Horde is allowed is Mak’gora. Which, is barbaric IMO.
And the Silvermoon silencing thing proves otherwise at least for the blood elves.
While Stormwind humans, Gilneans and pre-Cata dwarves are monarchies, they do tend to be very benevolent to their people and not take over their resources (with the exception of Greymane’s wall thing, and the retconned House of Nobles fiasco, its been retconned to Onyxia’s doing).
Its also different in WoW, at least when it comes to human or dwarven monarchies, unlike irl european monarchies, the power isnt in the line thru a divine right (which is another can of worms since in Azeroth gods actually exist with proof). I do not know what keeps Anduin as a monarch other than lineage.
Almost all pre-modern governments are essentially fascist. Examining a fantasy setting through this lens is idiotic.
Agreed but we didn’t have concentration camps full of trolls, and you guys did.
And if youre gonna compare Alliance camps from after WC2 to real life racial concentration camp, I reiterate, racism doesnt work the same in Azeroth, its at best species-ism.
To be fair to the alliance on the camps matter while far from a good thing and while a far cry from humane treatment. The orcs in the camp were just years ago almost an omnicidal force of invaders from another world. While ag as in the camps were not a good thing it was kind of camps death or let thrm run off into the eilds and do as grom or blackrock orcs did.
I am not defending the camps just pointing out the massive difference between situations
i think that the topic about the “regular citizen” is interesting because
both horde and alliance “regular people” wants the same thing and fear the other, they see them as a threat.
about ingame populations,in the alliance case they aren’t really represented by their current leaders, this is true for at least the 2 human kingdoms, it is ironic that the most “influenceable” leaders don’ truly represent their nations.
the regular citizens doesn’t care about peace with the horde, they just want to exterminate the monsters.
by example, if kultirans find out about that derek was ressed and jaina didn’t put him out of his misery as a “aberration” they will linch her again, not even speaking about saving a horde leader.
neither she or anduin truly represent what the ingame population or players truly want, and that is “justice” “retribution” or the complemente extermination of the horde races.
in legion it was also mentioned how the stormwind citizen is not truly a fan of anduin, for them is like a “meh” he doesn’t represent what varian was for them, not yet at least.
and wasn’t before the storm about that as well?
Point being, the people of both sides are presented like this for a reason, there is good and evil on both sides, it is wrong for the alliance or horde regular citizen to see the other see as an existencial threat with no hope for peace?
it is wrong that the people of both sides aren’t truly represented by their leaders?
Maybe this is the direction that blizzard was talking about “what the alliance and horde should be”?
anyway, just my 2cents.
a world of very dark grey vs very light grey