Is the Alliance ever going to get a payback for War of Thorns?

Kkw-emerald-dream · January 13, 2019, 5:24pm

It’s talked about quite a bit actually, I mean its right in front of your face.

Lithya-sargeras · January 13, 2019, 5:26pm

Its a trade off. sure.
But again its subjective and in no way a loss narratively.

Dreadmoore-wyrmrest-accord · January 13, 2019, 5:26pm

I don’t think the number is ever directly stated, but the Alliance canonically attaches a bomb to every ship in the fleet.

See, I play Alliance and did the war campaign, too.

Aviala-wyrmrest-accord · January 13, 2019, 5:27pm

There can’t be a real ‘payback’ for Teldrassil because it means too many (or few) things to different people.

Now, I play a healer whenever possible. I take it personally when a player (or even NPC) dies when I could have stopped it. So the burning of Teldrassil, the mad rush to rescue even a fraction of the NPCs there before everyone burned to death, that was a real gut punch to me. (And that’s not even counting the pre-quests and the story of all the elves killed in Ashenvale and Darkshore, who died to protect the civilians that were then torched after their sacrifice.)

So personally, the siege of Undercity did not feel like equal revenge in any way. And the battle of Dazar’alor feel like we’re hitting the wrong people for ‘revenge’ that the bloodthirsty members of the Alliance aren’t allowed to take, either.

But this isn’t a single-faction game. Plenty of Horde characters wanted nothing to do with burning Teldrassil, but the plot forced them to, and plenty others saw it just as a regrettable but needed act during war. For them, Undercity probably seemed equal. And now with the battle of Dazar’alor on top of that? Plenty feel that the Alliance has gotten more than their share.

So in terms of cities, we’re 1 Alliance city destroyed for 1.5 Horde. (Since Dazar’alor is still useable after the fight, but even those numbers are arguable.) In terms of emotional impact, we’re 1 felt-unprovoked genocide for 1 rubble destruction and 1 punching some other guy in the face.

There’s no real way to balance that emotional impact. And personally, I wouldn’t wish a copy of the War of Thorns on anyone. All this plot has done is make everyone angry and bitter at the other side.

Lithya-sargeras · January 13, 2019, 5:29pm

Yeah. But the fleets dont matter.
BFA started with the need for them but we never use them. They are never actually relevant we are just told constantly that they matter for some contrived reason.

Are we as players fighting on the high seas where our fleet actually matter? No. They dont.
They are just a plot device and by 8.2 both fleets would be completely eradicated.
If by some miracle the Kultiran Navy survives it wont actually matter in the slightest. It would just sit there in the books or game as some background information.

Treng-wyrmrest-accord · January 13, 2019, 5:30pm

The fleets are the entire reason that the factions turned to Zandalar and Kul’tiras.

Ariël-drakkari · January 13, 2019, 5:30pm

Sorry but trade offs that imply gameplay ARE the most important one. If not explain the drama fest invoked by the supposedly “superior Horde racials” on the Alliance population (you imply they whine just for the sake of whining?)

Some players on your side DO need to experiment the consequences of being clobbered with the villain bat to stupid proportions, so next time this happens -cause believe me, with the mediocre bunch we have as lore team on this game this is but guaranteed- they will know better than ask for something people with brains know they shouldn´t ask cause it´s moot at the end.

Also this would dramatically reduce the probability of Horde being made an Alliance client state and I will take the chance even if it´s my very fav race the one that has to pay the price for it…

Lithya-sargeras · January 13, 2019, 5:31pm

I already explained that part. I am not repeating myself.

When flying is unlocked it wont matter. Like. At all.
Stop trying to sell your crappy city design something of a narrative loss.

Treng-wyrmrest-accord · January 13, 2019, 5:33pm

You’re a texas sharpshooter, though. The reason we went for the ships wasn’t for gameplay, it was for in-lore warfare.

The fleets are very important.

Hardwire-velen · January 13, 2019, 5:33pm

The fleets are a maguffin to get us into the new zones. They’re never going to be relevant, unless they give us another WoD style shipyard. We could have been sent to our respective Islands for the Big Blue Box of Badness and the results would have been the same.

Jerrod-wyrmrest-accord · January 13, 2019, 5:35pm

1 to 1.5 cities isn’t entirely fair. The reality is that the Alliance lost two zones while the Horde lost a third of tirisfal. The lasting damage isn’t paralleled, and despite “winning” in Dazar’alor the only thing the horde lost was an incompetent leader and a military resource that, like gunships and footmen, will be replaced as blizzard desires.

What I want form a future patch is for Tirisfal to be turned into a warfront after the Alliance blitzes through the area and destroys all the Forsaken settlements so that nothing is left even if they win the warfront. Then we’ll be a little closer to equitable.

Lithya-sargeras · January 13, 2019, 5:35pm

The Horde destroyed an entire zone and conquered 2.
The Alliance destroyed 1 town.
Battle for Troll Wakanda has us defeating and almost killing 2 alliance faction leaders.
The Horde lose the Zandalari King.

You cant honestly say they are at all the same thing.

Oh easy. Let the Alliance kill all the blood elves in Silvermoon and burn that place to the ground. We have the fleet for it apparently.

Ariël-drakkari · January 13, 2019, 5:35pm

At the rate they´re going maybe flying won´t be implemented. Like at all…

Ariël-drakkari · January 13, 2019, 5:37pm

But Jerrod, this way the Helf fanatics won´t have their revenge at the big bad Belves that dared to keep Quel´thalas and rebuilt it without prostrating to the Alliance like Helves did!!

Lithya-sargeras · January 13, 2019, 5:38pm

would it make you feel better if I switched to my Night Elf Druid?

Jerrod-wyrmrest-accord · January 13, 2019, 5:39pm

I am not about to get tangled up in an argument about the Highelves, but their fans can get over it. Of all the things I want to raid in this game, doing Quel’thalas again is lowest on the list.

Pellex-hyjal · January 13, 2019, 5:40pm

See, this is the problem. I don’t think the opposite faction can choose a target because things that matter to one side don’t necessarily resonate with the other. Say you did destroy Silvermoon, but Horde players didn’t seem as upset, from what you could tell, as you felt over Teldrassil. Then you’d say the debt still wasn’t repaid. How does the story convince you that our suffering is equal to yours? You’re already predisposed to discount any pain we feel because we’re not in your “in-group” of people you care about, in a fictional context.

It’s actually a rather interesting question from a psychological point of view.

Lithya-sargeras · January 13, 2019, 5:43pm

I think that is a valid point but besides the point.
What matters is the Alliance faction to do the following.

Attack the Horde.
Push back the Horde.
Burn a few towns on the way.
Attack a major Horde city.
DESTROY IT
???
Leave and go back home.

So far the Alliance has never enjoyed such a thing but the Horde has multiple times with.
Gilneas.
Theramore.
Teldrassil.

I think its time the Alliance also gets some payback.
The best target? Silvermoon.

Hackbrew-wyrmrest-accord · January 13, 2019, 5:44pm

Next time don’t put an entire zone within a single flammable tree.

Lithya-sargeras · January 13, 2019, 5:45pm

Thanks for posting.
Finally we can put a face to all those Horde players utterly outraged by the prepatch.
I was starting to think they were a myth.