Most Mythic guilds don’t have the ability to add 5 purple parsers on a whim. This is pure %%%%ing fantasy. Most Mythic Raids that aren’t CE, from what I’ve seen in logs, typically have a number of green and often at least 1 or 2 grey parsers. Not only do that not have 20 purple parsers, they have less than 20 purple parsers. The idea of gearing up with more people to cheese a mechanic is simply not something any guild outside of the top 100 could muster and even within the top 100 I’m doubtful most guilds could do such a thing.
In fact, if you added 18-22 person scaling, the immediate result would be that most raid teams would drop down to 18 for a period of time, trimming the fat. The expectations for what is acceptable to a member of a Mythic Raid team would adjust as there is less need for filler and bench-warmers. You’d see less and less grey parsers being carried through content. As guilds improve due to being less obligated to carry dead-weight, you’d probably see them build back to 20+ person if that was the content sweet-spot, but with much improved flexibility if one of their players isn’t on for the night.
Side-note: Just so everyone is on the same page - Blizzard intentionally makes Mythic easier because it is 20-person, because they know that the vast majority of guilds are carrying dead-weight. So this idea that it is tuned as tight as possible and would blow up with a small amount of flex is a blatant lie.
Depends on how much you flex. 20-25 would be what I suggest. You could make a really good argument for the flex amount being the stand bench size 2-3 normally.
Blizzard likes 20 as the sweet-spot. Even in heroic, if you look at the math, they’re targeting 20-person as the optimal comp for just about every encounter. Sometimes they miss the mark but for the most part this is where they aim.
A 20-25 person raid size would suggest that your base raid size would be like 22 or 23 people so you can handle people calling out and drop to 20. I don’t think that should be the ideal. The point isn’t, IMO, to change the core definition of the raid group, but simply to add some wiggle room if too few (or too many) people show up on a given night.
That’s just my bias shining though missing the ol 25 man days. But I have no strong attachment or reason for 20-25.
20±x is fine.
Edit:
Although, if a current raiding guild is 20+3bench then that would land you in the middle of 20-25 so maybe. But guildies currently recruiting up to get into mythic would be happy to have 20±x because they could start sooner.
I’m reading this and can’t take you seriously.
Did you get shocked that someone did mechanics and parsed grey and killed a boss before you?
It’s really the m+ mind that makes you think dps is everything, when it’s not.
This idea that a fight would be as easy with 19 man vs 20man is just a straight lie.
This idea that everyone can do mythic carries or even CE carry is just a straight lie.
This idea that there wouldn’t be what you consider “dead weight” if you make the group smaller is also a major oversight. People said that coming from 40 to 25, from 25 to 20. I guess we need to push solo content as the only content that can be hard and well tuned?
Looking at your character and your achievements, you’ve never touched mythic this expansion on that toon and you’ve barely touch it at all this expansion. Either post on this mythical character you have them on or stop talking about thing you don’t know about
You don’t have to have 25 purple parsers to clear of course, and that means raid teams will easily just require whatever number of people makes the fight the easiest overall.
Then you really don’t have a horse in this race and should just leave worrying about mythic raid size to actual mythic raiders
People complain about the raid balance when it’s a static 20 people, no way they can balance it to be equally hard for 18,19,20,21,and 22 people all at once.
If the reason to add more players was to make to make a mechanic easier to increase DPS uptime… why would I not just boot the grey parser as that would increase my average DPS more than any mechanic ever could? And that would work better for all fights, not just this specific fight with this specific break-point. Most guilds do not have the ability to just add an infinite amount of people who are pulling the average DPS of the rest of the guild. There is a hierarchy in most guilds and typically the weakest player is floating near that grey parse line. If a guild has literally zero grey parsers and they’re all parsing blue or above, they’re probably CE and therefore enjoy the benefits that CE guilds do (good players willing to sit on the bench to get CE), something non-CE guilds don’t get to enjoy (if a guild doesn’t get CE, a player who parses purple is not going to sit on the bench - he will leave to join another team. Only bad players sit on the bench in non-CE guilds).
There is a heck of a lot less dead-weight in a 20-man Mythic Raid guild. Nowadays you only have 1 or 2 people not pulling their weight. You might have like 5, maybe even 10 people who suck in a 40-man raid.
With flex, you can have zero. If someone isn’t pulling their weight, you can threaten to sit them out for a fight even without having a bench. Obviously if your guild drops below 18 players you might have to recruit whoever you can find, but if you’re below 18 players you’re barely even a raid group to begin with.
Overall, I would say the health of the Mythic Raiding community would dramatically increase as more players played with like-minded players and players felt like stressed about the uncertainty of players not showing up.
And with all of these changes in mind, Blizzard can stop tuning bosses with grey-parsing DPS in mind. Because again, Blizzard does NOT design these fights for World First Race after they’re nerfed. These fights are designed such that they can be beaten while selling a carry - there’s that much wiggle room. You don’t have to bake this much wiggle-room in anymore if you can design the raid without having to take account roster boss and bench warmers being pulled in for bosses.
What if we don’t because that’s anyway not a solution to benching, not a solution to people that want 10man, and really not the worse requirement to raid mythic.
What makes you think you would have 0, what if the mechanics are easier in 19 man than 18 and that the dps difference doesn’t matter. Would you take a warm body? It’s just lie to say that flex would solve that, the only goal of flex would be to make it so everyone in your group can raid. But even that wouldn’t work because of tuning.
You know what would help the health of mythic raiding, not having to run M+ to be competitive. Better class balancing. More loot from bosses and less rng. Smaller raids.
It doesn’t have to be equally hard. As long as there exists skill gaps in players, it will almost always be best to take only your best players in for the fight and not case some mythical break point (you can see this in all of the raids on heroic this tier). And for retention purposes, it will always be advantageous to take your team who can perform well into a boss for a kill to keep them raiding with you.
???
I can’t honestly think of a fight that is hard where DPS doesn’t matter. I can’t think of a single fight where you’d take an increased DPS check to make mechanics easier. The general rule of thumb is that you always try to drop healers, not add them. Your funnel gear to DPS because DPS checks are typically the bottleneck.
In WoW, difficulty typically comes from trying to optimize DPS while dealing with mechanics. That’s what difficulty actually is, once you get past the basics.
This is exactly the problem. A fight will not be equally difficult across the flex range and guilds trying to prog will just hard-set at whatever number makes it the easiest.
Lot of fights have easy dps checks, and this expansion had more of dps check in mythic but that normally wasn’t true. If you want soakers, more people help. If there’s jobs to assign more people can help. etc. Tuning is way way different than you think, I’m just seeing a lot of ignorance really.
But even that that might just be bad faith as you were talking about heroic tuning that is easier with 20man.
Hard fights? I don’t think so. And if the fight isn’t hard, why are you doing this nonsense?
If Terragrue was easier with 22 people nobody would care.
The point is that most HARD fights have some kind of DPS check component to them. Because in WoW, the hard part is typically doing damage well while still doing mechanics. Mechanics are much, much simpler than people pretend they are on the forum.
It’s a mythic boss hence it’s a “difficult” one. xd
But you should get out of here really, it’s not like you want to mythic raid anyway.
I don’t see why you care that much of something you just hate and wish you never had to step in.
Mythic raiding should be flex just like heroic. It’s actually super silly that it’s not. They can’t tune the danged things, or classes, or specs, or anything at all anyway. May as well throw the playbook out the window and have fun with what remains of the community.
