Throwing the baby out with the bath water is never the solution, especially coming from someone who has never touched mythic to begin with.
Then there’s no point. A guild that can’t get 20 people together for mythic likely won’t be able to get 18 together either. That’s more a problem with the guild and recruiting pool than the raid size.
How is that significantly different than guilds already benching 4-5 people every single night?
While now allowing people to actually raid without a perfect bench which is where the masses are.
no. 20 is just about perfect IMO.
more than this and everything just gets way too crowded + way too many people to manage ect.
This is the same thread from before. Pretty sure I responded to you in that thread.
A 10 man roster would be far too restrictive.
Flex I think would just make things more complicated for a lot of the same reasons as 10 man, or just lead to very wonky scaling.
Either way it is an unnecessary gamble for an xpac that kind of needs to be good.
I think a much safer alternative would be to enable cross-realm raiding much earlier. Similarly they can get rid of the raid id lockout in favor of the boss lockouts for heroic (maybe at the same time that cross-realm raiding is enabled - or pushed out further - via leaderboards or just elapsed time since release).
being able to go above 20 without too much downsides would be really nice and save some recurring drama.
ppl always get a bit more stressed out when you finish heroic with ~24 and suddenly gotta cut to 20 
every damn patch.
The point is you can recruit 22 and if everyone shows up everyone raids.
When 1-2 people can’t make it due to RL everyone still raids.
Unlike now where by design people sit on the bench. Or if too many don’t show the raid is canceled.
Frankly, with their sharding technology there is very little reason aside from names and selling transfers that WoW doesn’t have 1 or 2 servers in each region.
I have mythic raided, granted, never cutting edge (I guess you can’t count WOTLK and before it as “cutting edge”). Went up to the final few bosses in a few raids in Legion but quit raiding for M+ focus in BFA.
A lot of us would raid if we could do it in a 10 man setting. Being around 19 humans is stressful for some of us introverts. You’d think a gaming company would understand most gamers are introverts and cater to us. Alas, here we are.
I hate that wow is obsessive about numbers. Leads to a lot of exclusion. If you want to bring like 10 more people who cares? Less loot, but more fun.
It would really alleviate the bench issue in mythic a lot if there was just a little bit of flex room. The way the game is designed combined with how real life works means you borderline need a bench to get anywhere mythic raiding. Also nobody wants to be bench. You either end up with bench players way worse than your main team players to the point that there almost isn’t even a point in raiding if you have to play them or everyone is slightly annoyed because everyone is constantly being rotated in and out for different kills. Being able to just have the raid size cap as your roster and raid so long as you aren’t missing more than like 4 people would be huge.
Isn’t that the same problem though? You’re arguing for people to have a 22 player team with a known bench, while I’m arguing for a 24 player team with a known bench?
Also, what happens to those teams where only 18 players show up and they go up against the boss that is significantly easier with 22 players? Are they not in the same situation as right now?
I don’t know… I already see what the difficulty of mythic raiding does to people and how they perceive their fellow players. I don’t see this going well. I think it worksish for norm/heroic because the level of challenge just isn’t the same. Once pull counts get well into triple digits… people really start looking for things to blame. I’m worried about this being another lever for which people use to blame each other.
I’m warmer to it than I once was, but I’d be willing to bet we’d be back in the same place we started.
This is why I’d rather them loosen the server-only and lockout rules for mythic instead of changing the raid size.
My current guild cleared heroic a small handful of times.
Normal is no question.
Mythic on the other hand, we’re unable to do because of this requirement of having a strict 20, and there’s absolutely no way we’d pug more than maybe 3 people total. In past expansions in my personal experience, never had this much of an issue up until this expansion.
Never liked the solid 20 man limit for Mythic, and never will. Counting on a solid 20 human bodies to be present and ready every single time, hopefully without fail, is sometimes a large glass of water to drink. That, and you’d perhaps have a couple more to warm the bench. Enough with the ****ing numbers game.
By the sounds of it you probably wouldn’t get far into mythic anyway then.
This guy is a lunatic too. Little Timmy Pumpernickel grey-parsing without a CE this expansion to call his own attacking folks who “not getting far into Mythic”. Kekw.
If you like Mythic as it is and want it to remain the way it is that’s fine, but it’s sort of a glasshouse situation when someone like that starts criticizing others and they haven’t actually done anything.
I see why now some of the folks in this thread were so sensitive about the grey parsing comments, kekw.
You can still prog the boss. You might still call it for the night if your big dog DPS are out for the night and you’re trying to do a kill pull, but for just basic mechanics prog on a boss, being able to pull the boss and make some amount of progress is a heck of a lot better than not.
Also, most of the raid is not going to be like this. Most bosses, easy bosses, are going to be able to be killed once you learn the mechanics. Most bosses are not going to benefit more from comp shenanigans than they are just knowing how to do the fight and doing the fight properly with good up-time.
Yeah and with that you cause so many issues of split runs, power creep amongst other issues. Personally I like the current system.
I agree whole-heartedly with the quoted post in the OP. My guild has a very similar, but opposite, situation. We typically have 12-15 people for our heroic group. Would love to throw ourselves at mythic difficulty now that we’ve cleared heroic, but the 20-man hard size requirement is a real buzzkill.
I get that it may be easier to tune difficulty for a set raid size, but the benefits of being able to flex in mythic difficulty would outweigh the costs, IMO.
Excuse me? Whatever you say.
By the sounds of it, you need to stop sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong.
You kinda need to have the “whatever it takes” mindset in order to mythic. Its not the kind of content for faint of heart. I don’t believe it’s only the fixed roster size stopping people. If you had the will to do it, you would be.
Also,
Too many people would fail flex mythic raids horrifically and would never try again. That’s not enough of a boon for WoW, especially if it carries the high risk of being an imbalanced hellscape to the ones who already clear it.
If you’re saying would I get my teeth pulled out with pliers for Cutting Edge… no I wouldn’t. Regardless of how really really good at this game I actually am, it is ultimately a video game for me. I don’t have “the will” to suffer for a reward that, quite frankly, from what I’ve seen, doesn’t really impress me that much. Hall of Fame sure, but CE, nah.
I play for fun. This no-flex Mythic Raid culture is not fun for me.
It would be fun if it had flex though. So yeah, I’m going to let folks know that I want flex.