Only if you ignore the part of his argument that is about SV being reworked from a ranged spec to melee, and how that ties in with the “bad design”-part. Or, the choice to go through with it in the way that they did, above anything else.
5 Likes
I see you and Bepples are still passing your opinions off as facts… Some things never change.
3 Likes
It happened several years ago at this point. It’s done and over with.
No, you can’t, because like I said in my post there are problems inherent to Survival that don’t exist for other specs including Feral and Enhancement, and that’s on top of all the problems that do also exist for those specs.
On top of competing for a limited amount of spots in a raid and therefore needing unique utility to stand out:
- Survival is up against 2 ranged specs in the same class. Every other melee spec is up against 0 or just 1 for Feral and Enhancement
- Survival used to be a ranged spec. All other melee specs started off as melee and stayed that way
- All other melee specs have clearly defined identities. Survival is built on multiple competing identities within one spec with one of those identities being flatly more fitting of ranged than melee (namely throwing bombs and shooting poison arrows)
- The Hunter class is heavily built on being ranged, with supporting material and the in-game design all assuming a default state of being ranged and melee being tacked on just as a token difference. If you look to the other classes that have both melee and ranged specs, Druids and Shamans, they both handle it far better from the conceptual level to the in-game implementation as you start at level 1. Doing the same for Hunters would require reworking the entire class just for Survival.
Evidently most Hunters don’t enjoy playing melee and therefore avoid Survival. It seems you’re again trying to frame this as a “live and let live” issue as if they didn’t replace an existing spec with this farce.
As it turns out “Oops I made a dumb decision and pushed a poorly-thought-out rework and now it’s too late to do anything about it so let’s just try to bandaid it up as much as possible ¯\(ツ)/¯” isn’t a good game design paradigm.
Survival was ranged for 12 years when some newer incompetent designers come in and made it melee. If 12 years of being ranged wasn’t enough to make it “done and over with” 5 years of being melee certainly isn’t, especially when the spec’s been up “crap” creek without a paddle for the entire time. The fact that they reworked it again just a couple years in to make it a lot more ranged makes it even less “done and over with”. Melee Survival isn’t owed any safety or permanence over any other spec. In fact given its dismal track record it has the least merit of continuing in its current form out of any spec in the game.
What exactly is your objection here?
If it’s that I’m talking only about Survival being melee… I did say “the list of problems with being melee that Survival has”. As far as I’m concerned it’s the only issue that matters. Random tweaks to various little aspects that Survival Hunters claim will fix the spec will actually amount to nothing. There aren’t hordes of players just waiting to jump into Survival if only it could dual wield, or if Wildfire Bomb weren’t a cone, or if it had Lacerate back, etc. The reason it’s ignored by most of the playerbase is because it’s melee. That’s a settled issue. And the only reason people still cling to Survival being melee is a) an overwhelming personal bias in favour of melee or b) pride and an unwillingness to admit a mistake was made.
Any game design matter can be passed off as “subjective” but some decisions are so at odds with common sense it becomes hard to treat them as debatable just because of the good old American sentiment of “it’s my opinion!!! >:(”. One of those is distinguishing a spec by taking away from it core strengths of the class.
I’m sure there are people out there who think it’s a good idea to take Stealth away from Outlaw Rogues just because it would be “different”. I’m actually certain of that because I’ve talked to people who sincerely believe they should do that. It doesn’t make it any less a breathtakingly stupid decision that most of the playerbase would oppose. The same goes for melee Survival. Who cares if a handful of melee diehards love it? It came at the expense of a much larger community of people. Why’s melee Survival so worth preserving when the vastly-more-popular ranged Survival wasn’t?
7 Likes
I agree. Survival should remain melee.
Happy Early Monday to you!
3 Likes
“Devoting 1/3 of the Hunter class to 1/30 of its players is a good idea”
- Average melee brain
5 Likes
guess il just abandon my warrior since i dont use a shield then.
They’re not going to revert the survival hunter changes just give it a rest. Bepples and Ghorak are just gonna sit here and cry about the good ol’ days until the end of WoW lol.
4 Likes
Yes Survival is in fact a languishing spec in a languishing game. I’m not sure why so many melee brains are proud of this.
For most WoW players when they think of Survival’s golden age they think of ranged Survival and that will never change now.
9 Likes
For the (I’ve lost count of the actual number) time, you do not speak for the WoW player base.
2 Likes
Block him and enjoy your time on the hunter forums. I don’t think in all my years of gaming and community forums I’ve been a part of that I’ve ever met someone who cries more than him or feels more entitled than he does.
The first time I ever interacted with him in a thread someone higher up in the thread warned everyone about conversing with him regarding survival and I should have heeded his warning.
2 Likes
If there is one reason to play survival that would be the Eye of the Jailer boss fight. Right after you come out jumping over with the chains, you harpoon to the boss and you fly across all the way to the main area where you are suppose to dps the boss. Fun times.
Every time you spout off about melee brain players, you sound more and more like a delusional moron.
7 Likes
Yeah sounds cool but wouldn’t it be great if you didn’t even have to harpoon and you could attack the boss from any range with full effectiveness? That would be crazy.
5 Likes
Except on heroic and above, you need to attack the Valkyrie type mob that was spawned from the chains, and not the boss. So harpooning back to get on that mobs does help. Btw, you cannot fire from where you land. You need to move into range. But I am sure you’ll come up with “Your group dps is to low if the mob is still alive” type excuse.
Uh, yeah, actually. Not only does the mob die from passive cleave + multidotting but there is almost no time pressure to kill it. Hard switching the entire raid to the add is never needed. But please continue to argue that Survival is good for a fight where it makes up 3% of all Hunter parses and not a single Survival Hunter even makes it into the top 300 for the class.
5 Likes
But yet, that is not what you spoke about earlier. You claimed that if you were range, you could shoot at the boss instead and there were no reason to harpoon back to the front. Now since there is a reason to do so, your claiming the entire raid does not need to switch to the mob, which btw was never said in the first place, which means your reaching. Hard. Again.
BTW, as SV, you can hit the boss as well. So…yeah. Same ol excuses from the same guy who has been complaining for nearly 7 years.
4 Likes
7 years ago we were still in the opening stages of the WoD-expansion. How’s that at all relevant to this discussion?
9 Likes
If you can attack the boss from the chain point then there is in fact no point to the Harpoon trick. The DPS requirement for the add is so low you can hardly call it a positive (and Duncon didn’t mention that anyway), and ranged DPS can be in adequate range of it in no time regardless because they’re… you know… ranged DPS.
Bonus points for the unreal projection of “reaching hard” when you’re trying to sell me the amazing benefits of… being able to reach the front of a boss they’re in range of regardless because they might be able to start DPS earlier on an add that doesn’t need focused DPS.
5 Likes
I’d say that, while it kinda has an identity crisis with BM, it also plays similarly, albeit it playing almost like a Warrior-Rouge hybrid with hard-hitting slashes/speedy movement/explosive gadgets.