Mythic + doesn’t hurt player growth as much as others may dramatize. However, the level of skill necessary makes it a challenge. Even if they allow you in to higher M+ with lower gear score does that change understanding group pulls? Interrupts? Stuns? Affixes? Etc.?
Personally, I would rather see M+ have reduced number of affixes, or keep the affixes but increase the time between them by 2-3 minutes. Lastly, take away “routes” and just make the route something where you must kill everything in that direction. The fill up the kill % in X time is the killer part of M+.
Folks have to do so many things in a sustained form. Manage their resources. Don’t step in things. Etc. etc.
Is the door closed? No. Does M+ require you to know the mobs, bosses, affixes, and your class, and do them all well in X amount of time - yes.
While there is a argument to be made that wows mythic raid design is dumb wannabe esports trash that is later fixed. Its been occuring for a decade at this point.
Punishment is almost always associated with failure in some form.
The statement you made encouragement and rewards is lackluster and what’s wrong with society.
If you fail and are punished get back up and try again. Eventually your hard work will pay off.
I have kids and when they fail, and they fail a lot. I make them get up a try again even when they are ready to give up. I need them to know that when they are finally successful they will be rewarded.
All players wanted, was to make dungeons a bit more relevant in the end game past a month or so into the expansion. What we got, was them turning dungeons into almost this mandatory grind, with a bunch of silly gimmicks to add difficulty that most MMO players hate.
Look, I know there is a segment of players that love M+, that doesn’t mean it is healthy for the game, I put rated arena is the same spot as well. Horrible system, that has no business being in this game.
Bottom line, Blizzard could have taken dungeon design in a different direction that would have been better suited for how casual the game has always been.
This was the baby of the Diablo 3 developers that were brought onto the team at the end of WoD.
Which is why at the start of any season Myth raid is tuned to that very very top players and once world first clear is achieved the raid will get constantly nerfed and nerfed even a couple of weeks the season its over.
Nothing new.
I could care less if race to world first guilds take 200-400 attempts on bosses, its a content those players like and they’re doing it on their free will, I dont suggest to remove certain type of content because it does not suit my gaming style.
The highest difficulty of raiding has always been exclusive.
Classic clears are not representative of how it worked when classic was actually new in 2004. The masses weren’t even sniffing AQ40, much less Naxx.
Even your example of heroic ICC, and fight that nobody cleared before the first 5% buff. Nobody on the server I played on then cleared heroic ICC until early Cata.
IMO keys should only reduce in level if you fail to complete it within like 10% over time. If you finish overtime, but under 10% over time, just leave the key level as is. Like, if a key has a time of 30 mins and you complete at 32.6 mins, keep it at the same level. Over 33 mins, make it -1 level.
I don’t think that the timer is the issue. I think the issue is that the punishment is so harsh that the timer becomes a point of frustration. I think Wow should add what a lot of games currently have with MMR - a bad luck buffer. I don’t think a key should deplete on your first try of a key level, instead make it on the second or third try for the key holder and 5th try as a participant. Likewise, if a participant is completing keys of a certain level consistently their key also levels up. I think additionally that Wow should keep people from signing up for keys above what they have completed (similar to delves) - this would require players to have to assume the risk of depleting their own keys sometimes.
I think this system would work against several major issues:
Griefing
Players depleting keys above their skill level
Players having a personal incentive to do others keys
Players having a personal incentive to do their own keys
The top two together giving each player a more equal share of risk
If a player is carried above their skill level they will not be able to sustain that level indefinitely
You do realize you just described raiding for vanilla the first 2 expansions of WoW, right? A minority of players ever touched raid before LFR was added.
There is nothing to do except raid in PvE endgame in classic. Of course the raiding stats are going to be strong from players who can choose to play retail instead if they aren’t looking to raid. This is the epitome of self-selection bias.
Bottom line, nobody who doesn’t want to participate in M+ or mythic raiding has to participate in M+. You keep pretending that players are forced at gunpoint to run M+. They are not, and players who don’t have the exact same options for engaging with the game as they did prior to M+ being added to the game.
Its way too grindy and sweaty for gear thats gonna be useless in 3 months, im happy playing blitz after attaining ksm and 619 ilvl so im done with pve. If i didnt PVP id be gone.
The M+ community consists of a lot of individuals with individual goals. It’s always a dubious statement to try to group all members of a community together when making claims like this. There are players who like M+ because of the challenge it present. There are players who like M+ because it allows them to get relevant gear out of dungeons. The former asking for more challenge doesn’t indicate the latter would be happy with changes necessary to add that challenge.
As a “collective”, the purpose for Mythic + is like minded end game goals that involve a challenge. The “majority” of them insist that high level gear should be “earned”. My general broad stroke was adding like minded folks into a category that is consistent with their comments and behavior. While not every M+er wants it to be hard as hell, most of them consider it a skill curve that makes them better at end game content in some attempt to be better than others. Hence the need for an addon that lists your rank so people will want to play with you. You cannot play with the elitists without being lumped in with them. Guilty by association was a term LONG before WoW.
This entire word salad of a response has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
The players who asked for challenge mode are not necessarily the same players who are upset that the mode removed the easiest parts of the skill curve where they enjoyed to play. Your Pikachu shocked face reaction about the community asking for something, receiving it, and then being upset about the consequences is just a ridiculous reaction when both reactions are valid given how wide of a range of players participate in the mode.
So by that logic should players who kill 4 mythic raid bosses by the end of the season be treated as having similar desires as RWF raiders?
