Is Mythic+ Punishment Hurting Player Growth?

Because humans lack self-awareness. It seems far more likely players will keep listing their key that’s over their head until they luck into a group that’s able to carry them to success than choose to lower their key. I really don’t fancy having to spend even more time vetting the key holder of a group to figure out whether they might be capable of contributing at an appropriate level for the key they hold.

Because mythic raiding has never been complained about?

This is such a disingenuous post, even from you. There are tens of millions of keys run even in the down seasons, resulting in a lot of players having an opinion of M+. Then there are the players in M+ because they feel they have to be there to progress what they want to do (which I do wish could be addressed without worsening what I enjoy). Of course when looking at just number of posts relating to M+ there are going to be enough when this many players are engaging with the mode.

But these mechanisms also combine together in a way that many of us find fun. There is always a risk when pondering a change to something that you alienate the core audience for that something. How many people who genuinely enjoy M+ like the things you think find it frustrating? How many people would enjoy the game less if some of these changes were added to the game? I will tell you the act of just finding a capable of group if key deranking didn’t exist sounds absolutely miserable to me.

Because Blizzard doesn’t want to let them. And frankly it seems many raiders don’t want this either. As someone who greatly prefers M+ to raid, I would love to see raiders be able to farm loot in raid. It’s not good that raiders feel compelled to farm M+ for gear when all they want to do is raid; by all means, let’s make it so they can farm their gear from raid just as easily.

You just can’t have data to support this conclusion at this point. There are going to be some number of players who want to M+ who simply aren’t there gear-wise yet. I will happily agree with you if the data continues its current downward trend in line with previous seasons come mid-season.

Punishing and annoying are two different things.

Strict punishment is not a requirement for successful child development. It is a western cultural tradition that children need strict control and harsh treatment or they grow up as weaklings, same as the belief that a baby that is not broken of bottle feeding will never learn to eat, or a child that is not given early toilet training will never grow out of diapers.

Most growth stages happen when a child is neurologically ready. “Spare the rod and spoil the child” is just child abuse.

What did your university teach you about overcoming adversity? I’m going to be absolutely nothing. Probably also taught you that nothing was your fault and the universe is against you.

Because bricking a key and it getting downgraded is not punishment. If a gnome popped out of your screen and starting beating on you, that would be punishment.

Get over your soft self.

It just puts you where you should be sweetheart. Your raiderio is actually a great example of that.
I see you “attempting” 8, 9, 10, when you absolutely should not be. You’re not on that level yet. You’re wasting other peoples’ time, consumables, and you are the frustration with M+.
Luckily most of your kind moved on to delves and realized delves suck compared to the free carries you sometimes get in M+

And your university never mentioned something about being rewarded for completing a goal ?

:roll_eyes:

A game too easy will also drive people away, no sense of accomplishment and/or something to work for.

Maybe you’re right. The one who should leave is me.

I’m a little unhinged but I don’t enjoy being constantly punished while playing a video game. Not sure how people who like M+ constantly put up with that.

This is why M+ is dying. This is your typical M+ player right here.

This is why having rated PVE content in your casual MMO is just a recipe for disaster.

M+ chases more players away from this game than any other system, imo.

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Imagine seeing something you can’t do and your first instinct is " this is bad"

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We have had enough examples over the last 2 decades of failed MMOs that tried to cater their game around ultra competitive types.

Wildstar says hello!!!

Mythic raiding, and M+ need to go. If you’re trying to get your self-worth from a video game, then I don’t know what to say here.

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Do you care to explain instead of being a clown? Thanks.
M+ isn’t dying btw- the people who were better suited to serve only themselves in easier content went on to delves which is much more boring is why they’re melting down in forums every day.

The fact you think downgrading a key is punishment says more about you than you realize.

It’s not punishment.

Regroup, learn from mistakes, push the key with your newly lessons learned. This is how you get better.

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You never played wildstar and watched an ad. Then used that ad for a decade now…

Wildstar was grindy it wasn’t hard least not mechanically. You just had to grind for months to pass stat checks.

Its more an example of what wow was in danger of becoming in sl then anything

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And exactly WHY is that ?

Content is OPTIONAL to who ever wants to engage, M+ in many levels and Myth raid is there to who ever wants a challenge.

If you never step into any of that content guess what ? WoW will still be the same for you.

The only way they could remove the “key down grade” would be to modify the rewards from an untimed key to be lower. Otherwise you will only promote the intentional farming of untimed keys. Keep in mind that an untimed key offers nearly the same reward as a timed one and still counts fully towards the vault. If they didn’t degrade people could buy a 10 carry and then just farmed untimed runs for the entire season.

What they could do is make it so you need two untimed runs in a row to down grade the key. This way you get a mulligan before it actually takes place.

It’s too hard to regroup, my energy might be completely drained.
Maybe I should try something else.
I shouldn’t have gotten into this from the start.
I still have to work during the day, and if that’s an excuse, then so be it.

I leveled 3 characters to max level, and I raided on my Spellslinger.

Yes, the game’s IP was kind of meh, and the art style was questionable, but the game died because of it’s dumb marketing and it’s focus on trying to make the game “harcore”.

HUH!!! Dude, the raid fights in Wildstar were exhausting. They required way more hand eye coordination than most fights in WoW. My guild just imploded about a month or 2 doing Genetic Archives.

Blizzard has been trending down the same path with this crappy design.

Some Mythic bosses are requiring 400 plus pulls to beat. Do you think that is fun gameplay?

They need to just get back to Wrath level of difficulty, where you average player has a shot at beating the hardest content.

ICC 25 heroic was the sweet spot.

Set reasonable goals.

Mine is ksm by the end of the season. Normally I hit it with 2-3 weeks to spare.

I only run m+ one night a week for no more than two hours.

Notice all the complaints over the years about Mythic raiding being too hard? This game was at it’s peak when raiding was tuned around your average player. Making content that only 1% of your play base tackles is just dumb.

What made WoW great, was how accessible their end game was. Now, everyone is segmented into a 20 different difficulty modes. It doesn’t foster community at all.

I think the raid stats alone from Classic has shown that this model worked well for the game.

I’m not saying make raids super easy, but having Mythic bosses where even the RWF guilds have to do 200 plus pulls is just crazy.

This is Ion’s vision for the game, what we are seeing right now.

All of WoW’s endgame just feels like players are working against each other.

M+ has the same issues as Mythic raiding.

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