Blizzard’s Mythic+ key downgrading system feels like a “tiger parent” approach—punishing failure to push players to improve. However, this system may be causing more harm than good. Constant key downgrades create unnecessary frustration, discouraging players from trying different class compositions and strategies. Instead, it pressures players to stick to the most efficient classes, limiting creativity and adding stress to the experience.
In raids, players can learn from mistakes without penalty, making it a healthier environment for growth. But in Mythic+, the harsh punishment system makes players feel like they’re wasting their time and effort if they fail to beat the timer. Wouldn’t it be better if players were free to experiment without the fear of losing progress?
Some might argue that if keys don’t downgrade, lower-level dungeons would be abandoned. But this doesn’t have to be the case. Low-level content can still be relevant through weekly rewards, trying different setups, or helping friends. Removing key downgrades wouldn’t mean the end of lower content; instead, it would reduce the pressure and encourage more flexibility.
Overall, removing key downgrades would lower player stress, promote experimentation, and foster a more collaborative community. Without the fear of failure, players could enjoy the game more, focus on long-term growth, and keep progressing without the frustration of constant setbacks. It’s time to consider if the current system is really serving the players, or if it’s creating a cycle of stress that could be avoided.
Players aren’t masochists.
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If we model player growth from real life trends of parenting styles you reference, then the lack of punishment leads to weak, soft players, unfit to survive the raid market or the tough social interactions required to succeed in the high-end PvE field.
examples
youtube.com/watch?v=RlLl6bBq584
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGXjoAqjKFU
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Punishment should be reserved for malicious behavior, while taking risks and facing challenges should be encouraged. This is what my education program in university taught me.
Excessive punishment will eventually cause people to lose their passion, turning them into kids who stay at home and refuse to work. This is especially serious in Asia.
The same principles that drive learning motivation are the ones that attract players to games.
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I wish we had a proper understanding of the definition of the words “punishment” and “excessive”.
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I don’t really see why you can’t just set your key to whatever level you want then just not give loot unless its timed.
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Let’s skip the fancy words and talk about what’s really happening.
When I take out the Keystone and the other person is about to take out theirs, the pressure of potential failure emerges within a group of friends that I’m not very familiar with yet. No one wants to be a burden.
When I’m in a PUG (Pick-Up Group), waiting a bit longer to get rewarded for picking a strong class, while those who choose weaker classes are punished.
This problem has always existed, but the difficulty this season is unbearable for me.
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I guess they want it to feel like the key upgrading is a form of progress itself. I used to not mind it so much, but pugging has been hellish with people leaving and fake dcing all the time.
Nothing feels quite like thinking you’ve screened someone well enough, checked their IO and everything, and they still bail over the smallest thing and degrade your key.
Had a tank drop mid GB one day when a DPS accidentally got clipped by Throgus’ pizza slice and died. The group leader was pretty upset by that. :\
The tradeoff with key depleting is that you still get loot and great vault for failing/depleting a key. I’m personally open to make timing a key required for score, great vault and loot but I’m not sure it would be less punishing (in exchange for keys not depleting).
In raid if you wipe you simply go again you don’t get anything. I think that’s pretty fair and yes I could see that as healty.
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Not sure why they’re timed either.
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it’s the equivalent of the Enrage Timer on raidbosses, probably. So you dont bring 3 tanks and 2 healers and The-Wall your way through.
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I had a +8 key on reset, I gambled and got garbage teammates. That key turned into a 6 real quick, I logged off and haven’t played in a week. I’m so done lmao
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They are timed because wow players would kill the game before accepting they wont get loot. Ive seen people spend HOURS buffing for molten core 40man. There isn’t a chance lfr players wouldnt wait 10mins each pull to hero for trash
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we keep hearing this myth. yet …
strong text
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This is slightly off topic, but one thing that I think might help the m+ environment in general would be to put a reroll dungeon option on keystone panda (I’m sorry, I don’t know her name even though I’ve spoken to her thousands of times lol).
It would work like this, when deranking a key you have the option to shuffle the dungeon at the same time. Of course you can keep the same dungeon if you want, but this gives way more flexibility for soloqueue m+ers to seek the key they are looking for (when paired with the key swap you can do when timing an equal leveled key).
In addition, at the start of the week you can reroll the first key you get out of vault one time without penalty. (This option goes away once you run a key that week).
High punishment does not lead to more capable people. It leads to people who lie more to avoid punishment. In video games, if an activity is too punishing, players will simply not do it to avoid it.
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Ok. When I thought “excessive punishment” was silly, that doesnt mean “high punishment” is better.
M+ is extremely forgiving in its “punishments”
Firstly, the “punishment” used to be far worse in Legion. Secondly, are you saying you shouldn’t have some sort of consequence for failing? If you don’t like the “punishment” or failing then stay in content that doesn’t “punish” you or where you don’t fail. Stay bad or git gud; your choice.
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Imo just make it so a key can be failed 2 or 3 times before downgrade.
Keys should only downgrade after running out of time after 12’s imo
there’s already an npc to drop the level if you think you’re not ready for that level. Why force it on you so you have to waste time grinding the previous level again
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