MC is the Classic Equivalent of looking for raid.
If you cant 1 shot that place in greens and blues, then you know the group is full of baddies.
Mythic 7s are way harder than that faceroll of a raid.
2 Likes
If Blizzard had made Rags a massive gear check that was mathematically impossible to beat with X amount of stats/resistance gear, would that be a good thing?
Most of the raids of MC that I saw through Geddon were in no way even gear checks, tbh. Just simple mechanic checks. Know where to be and what to do.
But thenā¦ none of that is a gear checkā¦ unless you claim the gear check at hand is stuff you got along the way while farming instances with XP groups or questing to get level. Yupā¦ I Have Gear. Okā¦ you meet the Gear Check.
1 Like
I donāt disagree but I was making the comparison to the values from private servers. The damage dished out is simply a lot less.
I wouldnāt expect much of a challenge for a coordinated guild/group until Twin Emps in AQ40 to be honest, especially with 1.12 gear.
Been awhile, but when i did vanilla MC it had enrage timers. If you didnāt have close to BiS pre raid gear (and later on at least some earlier boss drops) you couldnt drop the boss before the enrage.
Also the longer the fight took, the more likely people died to mechanics and the less likely you were going to drop the boss before the enrage.
I mean if people are clearing it in quest greens then good on them but the average player hasnt been practicing MC for years. I would guess that most people playing now either never did MC when it was relevant or only did it when it was relevant and havenāt since.
Edit: of course this is also the pre tbc patch so the bosses may have nerfed HP pools and extended enrage timers.
Yeah, given the difficulty of MC I expect BWL to be pretty easy as well. Im not necessarily complaining, the people I play with are mostly OG players that all have like, top 300 world kills at some point in their WoW careers. We are washed and have jobs and whatnot now, but we know not to stand in fire and to gtfo with the bomb.
BWL has actual mechanics, so itll be more difficult for pugs, and Vael will be a reality check for a lot of the people who still havent figured out how threat and resource management workedā¦but ya
We had a a glorified pug where half the DPS couldnt even manage 300 dps and we STILL steamrolled MC. I was hoping for a little more than that, not like Mythic Azshara difficulty but ya.
Still the most fun raiding Iāve had since MoP though, im not TOO concerned unless Naxx is as easy as WotLK naxx wasā¦
Ngl, the hardest part was the PUG bystander effect with the mages/priests like āIām not gonna dispel, one of the other 5 people will dispelā
The average players canāt do that. You can grab people in greens who know what they are doing. But not a bunch of people who havenāt done it in 15 years. Show me a tank who does it in quest greens.
Mc bosses never had enrage mechanic.
you remember wrong.
They really can.
Show me a tank that doesnāt do instances.
If you do instances, you wonāt be sitting in greens. But then, when people scream MC is a gear check, it isnāt from keeping up with regular dropped bluesā¦ its usually in reference to raid pre-BiS, and that is in no way needed to work MC, although it certainly isnāt discouraged.
Ok, well its been 14 years since i even thought about going there, so that may be a reason.
You gonna be upset if you play with enough players who have raided in modern wow, BWL was a huge step up back in the say because the first boss required individual players to do a neccessary fight mechanic.
Getting players to do mechanics is the hardest thing ever, every pug Ghuun I ran when I played BFA had everyone and their mother swearing moving the orb, a 2 person 1 button mechanic, was just too hard.
Its not, those players are just trash, if you want a challenge in classic join a guild of players who dont know wtf to do and enjoy your wipes while you explain to them how to do it.
If you run with competent raiders, you shouldnt be hitting walls in vanilla, people used to think the heigan dance was the hardest mechanic in the game, but the heigan dance is easy if you arent lagging from poor server connection and have more than 10 fps.
Swapping sides on thaddius is easy af, im sure you will get to watch people who would prefer not to move and wipe the raid.
And frankly that was still standard even in Cataclysm. The big dragon fight with lava required healers to hang out in certain areas and heal certain groups.
Really itās just basic raid boss mechanics.
classic wow is NOT a hard game.
Skill>gear in classic.
bosses in normal dungeons on retail have more mechanics than MC bosses. itās not a hard raid anymore
Youāre not the only one to parrot this belief, but itās really irritating to see it over and over again, because itās dead wrong.
Number of mechanics is not a shorthand for the difficulty of a fight.
Let me say that again, number of mechanics is not a shorthand for the difficulty of a fight. One, not all mechanics are created equally. Some mechanics are more difficult than others. But two, and far more important, mechanics on their own cannot make a fight difficult. The difficulty of a fight is the combination of its mechanical difficulty and its tuning. A hard tuned fight can be difficult even if itās mechanically simple. Patchwerk was a hard fight that is very simple mechanically. Vaelestraz, when BWL was new. On the other hand, a mechanically complex fight CANNOT be difficult if itās not tuned well. A boss with 10 varied mechanics is still a pushover if you can nuke him in under 10 seconds.
Tuning is a more important indicator of difficulty than mechanics. So when you talk about difficulty and number of mechanics as if there is a strong link between the two, youāre just proving that you have no idea what youāre talking about.
2 Likes
But it is in almost all cases a source of complexity and therefore opportunity for the raid as a whole to fail the encounter. The tuning argument is entirely separate, but of lesser importance than mechanical complexity.
There is a reason we stopped getting āPatchwerkā fights that were as brain dead as Patchwerk himself. The phrase was coined to symbolize a fight in which the DPS largely had nothing to do but DPS, Healers to Heal, and Tanks to Tank, and it was all cranked to 11ā¦ but the very next expansion had to add something more to do and we got Brutallus in SWP, a fight that tested you as much on your ability to hit your ideal rotation >85% of the time and manage the debuff accordingly.
The simple matter of making any individual player do more than their standard rotation adds difficulty to a fight, even if that extra thing is as simple as moving out of the occasional fire. Molten Core has precious little of this in its entirety, with several fights being the equivalent of Patchwerk for the majority of the raid: do nothing but kill the boss.
Your quibble over tuning is easily folded into the mechanics metric. If a mechanic is so undertuned, underwhelming, or inconsequential that people can safely ignore it, then that fight has one less mechanic to tally, thereby lowering the complexity/difficulty of the encounter. I fully expect Noth to go this route the moment Naxx releases as the poor sod has barely more health than Ragnaros and it takes a full 1.5 minutes for him to head to his balcony. Any guild with the DPS output to kill him before he ports will abuse him like the loot pinata he is, and he will become an even easier, less mechanically intense encounter.
2 Likes
The coordination required is what makes original raids difficult. I mean honestly I raided up to heroic and a little mythic in pugs the first couple of raids in BFA and add-ons pretty much babysit you. If you can get out of stupid stuff when DBM tells you or switch mobs when DBM tells you then you can raid in BFA.
1 Like
Itās easy if done properly. Need a good Raid Leader for sure.
We 1-shot Rag last night on our 2nd raid in MC with half the raid as a PuGā¦it really is easy, but you have to know what you are doing.
Iād suggest watching Skarmās breakdown of MC on youtube. If you follow what he says youāll be fine.
So every guild on your server oneshot everything in mc? Thatās what youāre saying?
Psh, real vanilla this was done with 1 button in a predefined priority order with Decursive.
2 Likes