Is M+ dead?

That’s not really what the survey data is showing. We’ve been on a downward trend and we’re doing less keys than DF S3 overall by a large margin. DF S4 was a VERY good season especially with bullions, but sadly it was a rehash of raids so not super popular.

The percentiles dont’ show the whole story either – that’s percentage of key runners. The percentage of the playerbase for KSH is still less than 4% right now whereas in DF S3 it was several times higher by this point from what I recall. This is from Data for Azeroth. If we considered that maybe there’s some statistical error there and it’s 1 or 2% higher it still holds true that DF S3 was way more popular in every way.

Way less players are engaging with the system. I can see this in my own guild and others – lots of folks just don’t bother anymore.

edit: as an example, week 8 s3 DF had 2.11 million keys ran. Week 8 of TWW is at 1.55. We have been going down most weeks on total numbers of keys ran as that is the norm. source is raider io data compiled on reddit. Look up " TWW M+ runs per week: Season 1, Week 8".

No, people have insulted floor pov dps in my keys from time to time. Just like ANYONE that fails for whatever reason.

People have complained about me too when I make mistakes, especially, egregious ones.

So, I think the fix isn’t to make it so that tanks can’t die, but rather people can keep having fun even with tank dead.

Now, tanks put a debuff that reduces boss melee damage by 90%.

Done.

No need for tank to live beyond the first second anymore.

You can still tank dungeons that aren’t m+.

in heroic dungeons, hunters can tank.

(One barrage pulled, they lived.)

Yeah, but there’s nothing for doing so.

So, why bother.

So you don’t want to tank trivial content because it’s too easy, but don’t want to play hard content because it’s too hard? lol.

But… it’d be the exact same without m+…

It’s moreso because BrM tanks are the worst, but either/or.

No one wants to tank right now.

Hard =/= Fun

I think there’s a good middle-ground and everyone knows we’re kinda past that rn.

People need to break out of their groups and be forced to PuG, imo lol

You are completely missing the point. It’s 1 against 4 as a tank. If you die for any reason, it’s straight abuse. You will have no tanks until they get buffed or make this verbal behavior bannable. It’s the worst for tanks and healers, sorry not sorry, you can scream at the sky all you want tanks were broken but they weren’t. They were just busted at max ilvl in low level content.

Are you missing blame the healer in your hypothetical scenario?

Tanks don’t know how to play, so they blame the healer when the problem is… them.

Tanks that I don’t want to play with again occur much more often than DPS.

Depends on many Hardcore Harrys are online to answer that. I do M2 at most and thats only if its Real ID friends.

My problem is far from hypothetical, playing dumb isn’t helping you here. You can continue with this behavior, but at the end of the day, us tanks will still gatekeep your content worse than blizzard does until we are buffed or blizzard takes action against the abuse tanks get.

Whenever I host a key, I can decline like the first four tanks that apply for not being good enough.

I’m really, not lacking tanks.

What “survey data” are you referring to? The data I shared is objective and factual. It’s a fact that we have 16 million keys completed after 2 months when DF S3 had 34.4 after 5.5 months. We are not that far from it in terms of raw numbers. Again, this is also post level squish which essentially removed M+2-10 in logged runs because M0s are not calculated.

Even if you look at percentiles we are doing well.

Data for Azeroth is a terrible metric for this. I already went over it in great detail with another poster. DFA data is extremely out dated and the sample size is extremely small. To give you an example, the data they had on me was over 2 months old showing me at like 580 ilvl when I was at 620+. It also showed me as having zero M+ achievements when that’s clearly not true.

Don’t use DFA.


  • DFA is populating a total of 1,163,167 accounts world wide.
    • We know that’s inaccurate.
  • DFA is populating a total of 3,351,149 total characters world wide.
    • We know that’s wildly inaccurate.
    • There’s more than 3.3 million unique Paladin characters logged in RIO.

https://www.dataforazeroth.com/characters/US/Dalaran/S%C3%B4sari

  • 2 months old data
  • 587 ilvl when I’m currently 630
  • Says my account-wide achievements are disabled when it’s clearly not.

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/dalaran/s%C3%B4sari/achievements/feats-of-strength/dungeons

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Not many players, even some hardcore players, don’t want the toxicity that Tanks and Healers recieve and to lesser degree the toxicity that DPS receive. Does it really surprise you that nobody wants to play in a toxic environment?

Toxic environment is simply a byproduct of interacting with people, as in, it has potential to occur.

For people that want to set the chance to zero (instead of the absurdly low below 1%) I suggest single player games.

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I think the armory is at fault here. These forums were showing me at 70 for a month into War Within when I got 80 on the second day…

I doubt many tanks want to pug a 11 on a monday. Also ive learned tanks usually bring a friend so if you have a full group, they wont Q.

I did 11s on mondays before, (hosted them) and didn’t need to wait 30 minutes.

It’s likely the first 10 being declined because they don’t fit X criteria.

It’s also very common to only remember the bad things.