Is it true there are only 4 classes that get to DPS?

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

IMMA GOING FOR FIRE FOR RAGNAROS !

TO HELL WITH THE ELITISTS !

Could you be a bit more hyperbolic? Also, you could totally raid MC as a fire talented mage, just as a fyi.

[Sereik-proudmoore (Sereik)]

I mean, you can SPEC fire, but all the non humanoid bosses are straight up fire immune while the rest have massive fire resist. Your only option is to cast untalented frostbolts, which at that point you might as well spec frost.

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

Aye I know. Was just being as silly as the person I responded to Knowing we play a class, and not just a spec.

[Mistwynd-lightbringer (Mistwynd)]

That one went right over your head!

I keep seeing that Mage, Rogue, Warrior, and Hunter are the only classes that will be allowed to DPS in raids and dungeons

Well, what you keep seeing is how the elitist players view it. Althoug your list should include warlocks as well.

Ret paladins, Ferals, Crit-Chickens, Ele shamans, Shadowpriests etc. will all have a chance. Just find the right people to play with.

Just don’t expect to progress as far or as fast as if you were in a raid group with a proper comp.

Also even for the lower dps specs, raids may still want a “token” member to provide buffs. I think moonkins provide a 3% spell crit buff to the raid for example. So your raid will want 1 moonkin.

For dungeons I think any dps spec is fine. Dungeons aren’t that hard. Back in Vanilla I don’t recall there being much exclusivity for dungeons. You wanted one healer (any spec), one tank (any spec) and 3 dps (any spec).

It was only for raids that you really saw leads selecting for the right classes/specs.

If you want to raid and play a pally or druid, you should probably expect to be healing. You’re unlikely to get a dps slot with those specs.

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

Aye. I am not saying bleeding edge raiding here. People seem to conviniently skip over the last sentence in my post. I have personally raided with people enjoying those specs. They don’t top the meters, and it wasn’t important because they were damn good people to play with!

[Mistwynd-lightbringer (Mistwynd)]

And that’s perfectly fine. You can probably get a raid slot in a low-end raiding group with weaker specs.

The downside is low-end raiding groups with the wrong specs aren’t bringing their “A-game”. Expect to wipe a lot in raids and probably not get very in any of them. You’ll probably also not down any bosses in the hardest raids.

But that may be perfectly fine. The goal is to have fun in a group setting. As long as everyone is having fun there’s no problem.

[Swani-arathor (Swani)]

You can probably get a raid slot in a low-end raiding group with weaker specs.

Oh I am not going to play any of these personally. I am going warlock this time around (mained mage back then) And as for low raiding for those, then yes, with a couple of exceptions. Don’t think any who intend to raid Naxx or AQ40 will have trouble choosing A grade spec’s.

[Feuerhuf-hyjal (Feuerhuf)]

Crit-Chickens

Never heard this one, only Boom Chicken. I like. Coming from a Gnome, it reminds me of the joke about chicken nuggets.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

It’s about stop pretending that they can’t.

They can do whatever they want. No one said otherwise. They just shouldn’t expect to have much success in (or invites to) raids if they play a bad spec.

If you think telling people “you can play a Balance druid and you’ll have no problem getting into groups and you’ll do just as much DPS as anyone else” isn’t doing a huge disservice to those people, then you’re wrong.

Every hybrid and their mother apparently likes to come out of the woodworks and interpret “these classes aren’t as good and they’ll have trouble getting into groups” as “don’t ever play these specs.” It’s just a warning to prepare for reality.

People do not want to handicap themselves. No, ONE Ret Paladin will not cause you to wipe, but people will avoid bringing them anyway, because there’s NO REASON to bring them over another DPS that will do more.

Not sure what that’s specifically addressing. The min/maxing is more akin to OCD than valuing hard work.

I don’t think you know what OCD actually is.

That’s subjective.

Something you enjoy, or something that is good? The first is subjective, yes, which was my point, but the latter is objective and quantifiable.

If you have fun playing a spec that is bad, that’s fine, but don’t expect everyone else to be okay with you being in their raid.

Players established that, not WoW, not Blizzard.

Players did not design the classes; Blizzard did.

[Renim-aegwynn (Renim)]

This whole conversation is stupid.

If you raid as an off-spec, you are being carried. That is fact. If you fill your raid with hybrid DPS, you will not be able to do the DPS checks no matter how low you may think they are. If you have a solid DPS team, then perhaps you can carry a Ret Paladin or Feral druid, but what kind of message does that send to the other people in your raid?

Low DPS isn’t just the only problems faced by off-spec hybrids. Many of them have mana issues and other problems that make them less than savory. So, its not just DPS its a multitude of issues.

Stop trying to lie to players about playing the way they want to play. If you join a guild and expect to do raids, you should be willing to use a spec that contributes to the raids success, especially if you are playing with people that want to clear content.

If you want to go ultra casual and not kill many bosses, by all means, allow your guild to spec as whatever. However, make it clear to your guild that you’re probably not going to get very far.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

@Aendelis-wyrmrest-accord

I keep seeing that Mage, Rogue, Warrior, and Hunter are the only classes that will be allowed to DPS in raids and dungeons. And hunter will be restricted to only 2-3 players. How true is that?

SPELLADIN says, “Hold my beer…”

The Spelladin - new Retribution meta for Classic

Courtesy of DexterBravo: Gear competetion - That T2 gear that every pally wants for PVP or RP, isn’t good for holy. But it is BIS (likely forever) for Spelladins. That’s 8 pieces of items that is Spelladin prio, which won’t be replaced in ZG, AQ, NAXX. That’s a lot of gear for happy warriors, casters, etc., that otherwise was wanted by the AP ret. Actually viable DPS most likely (none of us know how Classic will be tuned in the end). Much better than AP ret – more dps, more mana uptime…

[Megustab-area-52]

Come to layer #33, we don’t discriminate classes.

[Espure-proudmoore (Espure)]

This whole conversation is stupid.

If you raid as an off-spec, you are being carried. That is fact. If you fill your raid with hybrid DPS, you will not be able to do the DPS checks no matter how low you may think they are. If you have a solid DPS team, then perhaps you can carry a Ret Paladin or Feral druid, but what kind of message does that send to the other people in your raid?

Low DPS isn’t just the only problems faced by off-spec hybrids. Many of them have mana issues and other problems that make them less than savory. So, its not just DPS its a multitude of issues.

Stop trying to lie to players about playing the way they want to play. If you join a guild and expect to do raids, you should be willing to use a spec that contributes to the raids success, especially if you are playing with people that want to clear content.

If you want to go ultra casual and not kill many bosses, by all means, allow your guild to spec as whatever. However, make it clear to your guild that you’re probably not going to get very far.

If you fill your raid with pure DPS that have no real utility, you’ll run into problems where that utility is rather useful. It’s not so important that everyone play the absolute best damage spec in the game or you can’t finish a raid. In Naxx it’ll be harder, but it’s more important to have competent players that work hard.

Feral also does a lot more damage than you give it credit for. I think it’d honestly be close to hunters in Naxx. You’re vastly overstating the difficulty of the content and the weakness of hybrids.

[Cowpanzers-skywall]

It was sarcasm if you couldn’t detect it. I’m all for playing Classic casually and raid with people with less optimal specs…

[Solanaria-sisters-of-elune (Solanaria)]

I don’t know where you’re getting your information. Blanket statements like these are usually mostly wrong. Some classes are more popular in Classic 40 man raids but other specs did get to raid. There were feral druids and shadow priests. As for hunter, for the Magmadar fight in MC several hunters were needed for the Tranq Shot rotation, I think 4-5. I played Horde so there were no pallies. I can’t recall what the popular shaman spec was as I never played one.

Also however remember there were fewer classes overall. Death Knight, Monk, Demon Hunter, didn’t even exist.

[Ghrimsy-anvilmar]

You’ll get to DPS but you most likely won’t be allowed to use most of your spells unless you’ve been allowed to. Since there is a debuff cap you’ll be basically forced to only cast 1 ability or be an auto-attack bot

[Stimpäk-proudmoore]

And honestly I think that’s where the different views of WoW game
play comes from along with what separates the hardcore players/guilds vs casual players/guilds. I am a very casual player and if I optimize anything it’s personal enjoyment of the game. Not to say I have never played optimal classes/specs in wow but I usually approach the game in the mindset of “I am going to have fun in this game regardless if what I am doing is optimal.”

While I also get people approach the game with the mindset of team-goals and objectives and do whatever they can to make those goals happen, in which I honestly have no problem with.

I do though have a personal experience story that relates, in which I was apart of a hardcore guild back in BC in which we were getting ready to run Zul’Aman and when we were getting assembled the raid leader mentioned my talents were not “optimal” in which I was removed from the raid for the simple reason that he didn’t like my talent selections. Lucky for me there was a Zul’Aman pug that was happening in /2 chat in which they took me along and we actually completed it in it’s entirety. Even got that Bear looking chain shoulder item from there. I then flashed my new shoulder item in guild chat and shortly left afterwards. Have only been apart of casual guilds since.

And this is where I think my bone to pick with min-maxing comes from, the assumption that you are useless unless you do what the pros tell you to about race/class combo selection, talent selections, etc. etc.

This being said, if you want to be apart of a min-max guild more power to the players that want to do that, it’s not a play style I like but hey, you’re paying for this game you do what ever gives you the most enjoyment.

[Ohshiftson-area-52]

And this is where I think my bone to pick with min-maxing comes from, the assumption that you are useless unless you do what the pros tell you to about race/class combo selection, talent selections, etc. etc.

It’s not necessarily useless; just less useful, and it’s not what the pros tell you; it’s what the classes objectively can do.

People don’t say “a Ret Paladin does bad dps” because some world first guild didn’t bring a Ret Paladin to their raid. They say that because it’s objectively, quantifiably, provably true.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

@Ohshiftson-area-52

People don’t say “a Ret Paladin does bad dps” because some world first guild didn’t bring a Ret Paladin to their raid. They say that because it’s objectively, quantifiably, provably true .

wrong again son

The Spelladin - new Retribution meta for Classic

Courtesy of DexterBravo: Gear competetion - That T2 gear that every pally wants for PVP or RP, isn’t good for holy. But it is BIS (likely forever) for Spelladins. That’s 8 pieces of items that is Spelladin prio, which won’t be replaced in ZG, AQ, NAXX. That’s a lot of gear for happy warriors, casters, etc., that otherwise was wanted by the AP ret. Actually viable DPS most likely (none of us know how Classic will be tuned in the end). Much better than AP ret – more dps, more mana uptime…

[Ziryus-doomhammer (Ziryus)]

And this is where I think my bone to pick with min-maxing comes from, the assumption that you are useless unless you do what the pros tell you to about race/class combo selection, talent selections, etc. etc.

It’s not necessarily useless; just less useful, and it’s not what the pros tell you; it’s what the classes objectively can do.

People don’t say “a Ret Paladin does bad dps” because some world first guild didn’t bring a Ret Paladin to their raid. They say that because it’s objectively, quantifiably, provably true.

People seem to ignore that hyrbids did worse in non healing roles in all aspects of the game and that yes it mattered in all aspects of the game.

That you could out gear it at some point? Okay? Who cares?