NVM, I posted before realizing the trial account that never played vanilla is either trolling, or upset that he wont be able to get carried as a meme spec.
Just give up already kid.
A single Resto Druid takes up a healing spot belonging to a Priest. Feral takes up a tank slot and provides more DPS.
I donât even have to prove it. Itâs well established you nobody.
Get personal and contribute nothing to the topic. I expect nothing less from a child.
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Gee, thatâs just fantastic!
yeah, I see you misquoting gj ![:wink:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/wink.png?v=6" ":wink:")
Heâs just a dumb child.
There are two approaches though, (both are fine honestly) You can min-max and play with other people min-maxing and you will have an easier time no doubt.
Or
You can play casual and play with fellow casuals along with having less then ideal specs in which the raid bosses will be harder understandably (Not impossible mind you)
What else is that supposed to mean? Youâre suggesting that classes being incapable of performing roles theyâre plainly advertised as capable of filling is somehow acceptable because people âDonât need to min-maxâ
AKA, a raid can afford to carry someone while they play a garbage spec and they should settle for this.
Except people did not find that acceptable in any way, shape or form. and thatâs why that stopped being the case literally months if not weeks after the patch âClassicâ is set in. The vast majority of these concerns were remedied to some extent in TBC⌠It wasnât perfect, but nobody was outright laughed out of the group/raid for wanting to play a particular spec.
Are you saying that you need everyone to be min-maxed to complete any raid content in vanilla?
Nothing I said implied or suggested that in any way, shape or form.
What I want is for certain classes to not have go twice or more the distance to get less than half the results of other certain classesâŚ
The argument that âYou donât have to min-max!â isnât an argument at all⌠and the idea that it justifies some classes not being able to perform roles they were obviously conceptualized (and advertised) to fill to any practical extent is just flat out silly.
But if someone wants to play a feral cat dps and everyone else has no problem with them doing that because the guild/raid is composed of friends/friends-of-friends then what is the problem?
this is what we have atm - Holyfrog ran an AQ40 pug a few weeks back and did this as his first ever try at SPELLADIN in a 40man raid:
he went toe to toe with a full BiS forever traditional AP/Crit SoC Retribution Paladin but neither used Flask of Supreme Power
Holyfrog is 8/8 Tier 2 but still needs multiple BiS upgrades in other slots - however he did make it rain on CâThun
and again, for the intellectually dishonest people - donât look at full raid stats cuz iirc Holy swung Nightfall on Huhuran and went 8/8 Tier 1 on Viscidus
well said my friend
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spoiler alert - no one ran SPELLADIN in retail Vanilla
if you donât believe me, then listen to Kevin Jordan - the original designer for all classes and specs in Vanilla WoW
how do I know this?
CUZ I INTERVIEWED HIM BROâŚ
https://countdowntoclassic.com/2019/04/17/episode-100-the-journey-from-nostalrius-to-classic-kevin-jordan-on-paladins-josh-chooses-a-region-hardcore-guild-onslaught/#more-1358
- Calling Countdown #2 â Kevin Jordan On Paladins (With Theloras) â 1:13:45
TLDR - âSpelladin SoR Ret >>>>>>> Traditional AP/Crit SoC Retâ - Kevin Jordan
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Since weâre doing hypothetical scenarios, how about we consider the idea that maybe that Feral Druid doesnât want to be carried? Maybe they want their class to be able to adequately perform the roles that were advertised to it?
What if that Feral Druid wants to contribute to the raids success in a meaningful way that doesnât include healing?
The options left are DPS or Tank⌠neither of which square up for them⌠Theyâre in a better place for it than Paladins or Enhancement Shaman, but youâd still be better off bringing ANY OTHER DPS or another Warrior Tank.
Do you have to bring something else instead? No, of course not.
Would you better off in 99 out of 100 cases if you DID bring something else? Yes.
Is the Feral Druid TECHNICALLY a detriment to their raids chances of success when compared to the majority of other choices for the role? Yes.
And THAT is the problem. Its not a question of whether itâs possible, itâs a question of how much extra weight is that Feral Druid adding that they themselves canât carry?
There is a difference between min/maxing and playing a spec that is just terrible. I would hardly call myself a min/maxer, but I want to build a good raid. Raids are a guild effort, it takes 40 people. For every bad spec you bring, everyone else is having to carry that extra weight.
Above all else, the biggest problem meme specs have is that DPS is not a hard roll to fill in a raid. Itâs not like Iâm deciding between bringing a ret paladin or raiding with just 39 people. I get to pick between the hybrid dps, 12 fury warriors, 14 mages, 7 warlocks, 23 rogues, or 8 hunters. All of which can show up to the raid having done no consumable farming or preparation at all and outperform a min/maxed hybrid.
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FYI Trial accounts are capped at level 20 (not level 26) so there goes your argument lol
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ps you still havenât replied to my post about you misquoting me saying that I wanted The Hungering Cold over Manual Crowd Pummeler or Ironfoe
or cloth gear for every item slot over 8/8 tier 2 JudgementâŚ
#JustSayin
But that is just looking at pure dps numbers, yes a rogue will out dps a feral druid in 99% of cases but that rogue wonât have a brez on hand. And if you wanna talk about supporting a raid bringing back someone from death is extremely helpful.
Or bring another innervate to support healers mana regen.
âBut resto druids can do that alsoâ
that really isnât the point. Itâs what a class/spec can contribute to the raid, and that is something that people constantly overlook with ret paladins, feral druids, enhance shamans, etc. is that they sacrifice their dps for utility and that utility can literally save a raid.
a Resto Druid also cannot be the best Off-Tank in the entire game or number 1 threat Tank for DPS heavy fights like Thaddius/Patchwerk where all 40 players have to go nuts to beat the enrage timer