Yep. Especially from the pve only crowd.
Pvp when we do pve…we tend to not mind this as much. Its part of our muscle memory.
We have side crap on the bar. We have to. we “tank” for ourselves. Damage mitigation, CC, interupt if there? Yes, it is used.
we don’t have run by tank to dump aggro as an option. that warrior on your butt doesn’t go oh…I attack the prot paladin now lol.
This is why in leveling runs, classic and retail, I’ve been the OS tank when our tank bailed.
And it works okay in leveling/normal. with a good pocket healer and solid dps who doesn’t do stupid dps things so much lol.
Heroic? Not as effective, still possilble if other dps is geared. Mythic for retail or classic runic? No.
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No no and 100x no. I love to play 3 roles. This is mmo rpg not SKyrim budy. Why going backwards to less. Its mmo rpg not from co op? I think you should try Diablo 4. You will love it.
Only the ill received 4th edition of D&D had a trinity system. The original and all other editions are more like GW2. I would hope in a game ran by a real person the DM would have villains that prioritize the ones doing the most damage or the most vulnerable first over this big, slow and armored tank hitting them with a wet noodle.
The trinity was a meta contrivance created by computer RPG makers to balance glass cannon damage dealers with plate wearing damage dealers, make developing boss mechanics easier and allow lesser skilled players to have a role in raids.
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This is why I like Delves. PVE used to be about using all of your class abilities back in the day. I loved sapping/sheeping in raids.
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Not everyone wants to play only dps role, some of us like the teamwork aspect of the trinity.
If they remove trinity from dungeons and raids I quit the game, I don’t care if they add stuff like delves or other single/small team content but 5man dungeons are the only part of the game I really enjoy.
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You can play diablo 4 if you want that.
Then they die.
It’s no different to them trying higher keys or with an under geared healer, they will die. They may never learn, but they will die and they will not be timing any content, chances are players will just leave and they won’t even finish, it really is no different.
What else can we do? It’s not just “I don’t want to tank for pugs”, but with delves it’s also “I don’t have to tank anymore”. Tanks have been in a slow decline for years, something needs to be done to allow those who don’t tank or don’t have tanks on the ready to still be able to do content, because if nothing changes and the pug scene dies, that’s for sure a lose of players.
This is an incredible take considering that D&D originated the tank, support, and damage in its original three classes of Fighting Man, Cleric, and Magic User – which were themselves adapted from corresponding roles in a tabletop wargame. The fireball-slinging wizard is a direct result of artillery being replaced by mages, and is rarely represented in pre-D&D fantasy. The deep ties of tabletop RPGs to wargaming are how ‘tank’ became preferred over ‘meatshield’ to describe the point man. The cleric was the biggest invention in order to check the serious weaknesses to attrition that Gygax’s early group of friends suffered.
Later editions of D&D would move away from the concept being so strongly in-built with a new emphasis on character building and character realization, but the trinity is core to classic combat-focused RPGs and always has been – even as the specific definition of ‘support’ has varied drastically over the years.
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Removing tanks would still require someone to face smack the boss. Otherwise ranged clothies and healers will be pummelled.
All boss fights would have be completely overhauled and/or nerfed to allow DPS to live long enough.
I like the structure that having a tank brings to a dungeon. Games without the trinity usually feel really hectic/chaotic.
But I can appreciate the sentiment. The MMORPG genre is a bit stagnate/stale. Would be nice to see some new takes on it.
Kinda makes me wanna play Elden Ring again. I feel like they hit a sweet spot of making you not feel alone with the ghosts/bloodstains/signs… but they don’t really break your immersion… and you can summon the homies if you wanna do some PvP/jolly cooperation.
Man my vault rewards are gonna suck this week, I have hardly played this week. Went from like 0 to 1700 IO rating on this guy and that’s about all I did. Usually I at least do my 4 Delves for 616 choices in the vault on my alt army. Didn’t do squat this week.
Got lazy this week I guess.
There was never a threat system in D&D besides the 4th edition. The DM is free to have a smart villain concentrate on the fireballing mage or the healer. Fighter/cleric/wizard were taken from the traditional fantasy lit at the time. You can have fighters/clerics/wizards in your game without having forced threat which is the heart of the trinity system.
No trinity in D&D (besides 4th edition which failed).
Hoooly smokes the forums have finally come full circle back to this 20 year old discussion.
Took you guys long enough!
I have yet to encounter a single group combat system that has managed to stay away from the trinity and do combat well. There are ways to provide nuance to it, but you will inevitably always end up with a trinity of some kind.
Whether it is the types of weapons, different ranges, different types of tanks/frontliners and healers/support being weird or different… So no. Moving away from something that works so well that it can be found in nearly every single game with group combat to date… Yeah… No.
Blizzard is directly responsible for changes to the game that have resulted in fewer tanks and healers. If you think Blizzard can successfully develop a new type of dungeon after they ruined the old type through sheer incompetence, your faith is strong, grasshopper.
Nobody wants to tank or heal in comparison to DPS.
Like, the ratio is too extremely skewed- probably 1,000 DPS for each 1 tank.
Imo, too much of the game is catered to DPS players.
Maybe make some tank or healer-only stuff, and watch those numbers go up.
The main issue here, is that DPS are allowed to do everything.
For example, tanks are kinda useless in PvP except niche scenarios.
So, if you play a tank, like me, that’s a whole portion of the game you basically can’t engage with, because you are a tank. You can engage, but people will laugh at you for being a tank in PvP.
Tanks are even more useless in arenas. You will 100% be laughed at for trying Solo Shuffle on any tank.
So, these are my personal grievances for why not enough people play those roles- they are limited in what content they can do. At least tanks are, healers are way more versatile. (Although, healing shuffle is also extremely stressful, more than DPS.)
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I think the ideal change is to get rid of 5-man dungeons, personally. I’ve never seen the point. They were always a dumbed-down and boring filler thing to do, and Blizzard’s attempts to elevate this sideshow into a major part of the game has been a disaster.
That would be one way for me to play drastically less and eventually move on.
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My reaction to that would be the same as to somebody who said they only played for Trial of Style, or pet battles. Conceivable, but if that’s the only thing a person cares about, there are other games that just do it way better. 
The augmentation spec is an attempt to do just that.
Its not the only thing I care about. But its a large aspect of things that get me to play regularly.
Raiding is a couple of nights, then nothing to do for the rest?
Raiding alone has never been enough for me to justify playing WoW. I havent played a game yet that does 5 game content better.
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