I think it’s more of a problem with people not even trying (as in AFKing and otherwise being lazy) and getting the same rewards.
That was one of my concerns with the change from day 1.
Plus, my main concern is what this all does with the social aspects of working other other people. IMO real skills like networking and social skills should matter in this version of the game. They did in the past for sure, including in classic. Now, in some ways, they still do (raiding-type ways mostly) and in some ways, they don’t. This has now been almost completely stripped from PVP which to me is a shame.
There’s a lot of this. It’s pure, seething, jealousy.
People should be happy for you achieving goals, but they aren’t, instead, they are nasty. As reflected by many of Throwinhands posts.
I’ve run somewhat try-hard guilds for PVE too (also with a full-time job). My first one was like a second job. My thought was always on the team. I would give those raiders the shirt off my back. I passed on gear all the time for them to see them happy, but people have so much contempt for guild leaders too, as if all guild leaders are all corrupt or evil.
The system change did not stop how people were playing. There were still mad people afking before the change. All though it is probably easier now that AV is full on meta so that they can actually afk.
Even on ab weekends all you seen was initial ques into premades and then games dropped off.
I am literally the guy that said R14 means the same now as it did back then lol
Gaslighting at its finest.
You 2 nerds are the ones trying to look down on people cause they’re getting r14 now.
I am happy for everyone. Now literally anyone can get geared up to defend themselves in open world in fresh classic.
If you bring your premade into AV and cause turtles on purpose killing HPH then don’t get all sad face when you see people afking btw
I don’t really care about that part because I don’t care about the gear people have. Or those titles.
I’ve explained my gripes a hundred times.
I’m annoyed that the BGs are very low quality (as in, not fun for anyone who wants a real challenge, especially a good old premade vs premade type challenge - and props to Sanch and, yeah I’ll say the name, for trying to bring this back through Discord) and also that the social aspects of the game that actually make the game fun, memorable, and unique, are being stripped away by Retail type changes.
If ganking 55s did it for me I’d be playing my clones. That’s boring to me. I’ve tried the new ranking thing to give it an honest shot, got to R12, and found it to be a very hollow shell that reminded me very much of a Retail rep grind (even though I was doing some games with horde premades that made it slightly more bearable), and abandoned Era again.
If I wanted to do bland and self-centered rep grinds I’d just play Dragonflight. That’s 95% of what Retail is. So why play Era?
My hope is that the aspects that I care about in a fresh are retained in other ways like the early resource wars, guild things, and bug wars. Otherwise, I’m out for good. The self-centered, low-quality “community” of old-school WoW haters can have their boring, Retail-inspired, Era skin game for their petty gear obsession.
This just sounds like your primary issue with it is the current HPH meta, and this is something that can (and should) be altered for the health of the game’s various faction rep grinds (and of course for mixing things up for players). Getting exalted with Warsong or AB is practically damn near a pipedream in this current circumstance due to how infrequent these BGs pop and that’s not really how it should be. People should technically be able to queue for any of the 3 and reasonably get in to a game and there are ways to balance the rep/honor output to make it so that this is a reality.
I’d love nothing more than, when queueing BG for fun, to feel confident BG weaving just WSG and AB together…especially once I’m done reaching rank 14, I’m not sure if I’ll be down to AV for a while after that.
For whatever odd reason, everyone recognizes this game as a guild-group-raid environment and doing literally everything in the game coordinated with other people.
…except for pvp. No grouping or coordination allowed. Everyone must solo q and not try.
Boggles the mind
Grouping up for pvp takes less effort than forming a raid. These ppl will make multiple raids a week but it’s completely appalling to ping a discord for 9 other people to q
I dont want RBGs added into game. Old ranking system, but with a twist. You can grind up to your titles, but if you are not R14 before end of season then you reset back to 0 rating and have to start over again.
Also, I want arenas in WoW Vanilla. Back when everything kinda sucked. It would be really interesting. I want to see if my ele sham can do good in an arena setting in first ever version of WoW. Classic+ Arenas for the 04 version of the game?
Probably a terrible idea, but I still want to try it out anyways.
I want to BG with people in the way I raid with the same people essentially, complete with the consume usage. Work as a team, try hard, and get better - both individually and as a team.
This wouldn’t sound weird if I were talking about PVE raiding and if I said “I like to raid with the same guys every week instead of pugging.” it’s almost standard. That’s part of classic. Here a lot of people just want to treat PVP way differently and act as if this type of play is wrong but really it’s not.
I REALLY like PVPing as a team and getting to know people while doing it. This is a massive hook for it being fun for me. So if this is removed what is the point exactly?
Yes though, I’ve been supportive of changes that increase AB and WSG participation. including the rep grind being part of getting the gear, with making WSG faster. So you are right in that this would help too.
There are a handful of people who love the rank change who absolutely do not want to do anything but semi AFK AV, and they’ve said so. One of them then brags about AQ20 parses as if this means a single thing for PVP ranking, then gets mad at me for calling it out.
YEP. I typed the above post without reading yours first. You are right.
but this issue isn’t fixed or resolved by means of any changes to the ranking system, necessarily.
your problem is caused by the fact AV just generally provides a better HPH potential than WSG and AB when all variables are considered (ease of solo queueing over forming a premade, lots of solo queuers regardless)
your issue is just the desire to do BGs in a premade, basically, and that will happen if WSG/AB provide a good enough reward structure for people to voluntarily choose it over AV.
First, you run into the same exact problem retail had… Having to wait around for 9 other people to log on, is simply cancerous for participation. It was bad enough trying to get people for 5s online after cata, and RBGs as a functional bracket stopped existing after MoP broke OQueu (also the meteoric rise of boosts, pilots, and DDOS in that time was disgusting)
Then you realize 10man AB sucks… so then you have to split the brackets by BG, further dropping player pool for each game
Then you have rating problems… as in anyone high rated waits HOURS for games… and often gets matched at people 500 rating below their team because the system just gives up… and those games are atrocious for everyone… The good team wins and gets 1 point, but risks tons of points playing low rated teams they’ll relenetlessly stomp, or get dunked on because it’s a rival boosting team of all former rank 1s… and the bad team if they’re not a boosting team themselves never gets a real game themselves because they only get matched against former r1s.
Formal team v team RBGs where barely even a thing in retail, they absolutely wouldn’t be a thing in a niche version of classic…There’s barely enough people as it is for casual pvp, let alone rated brackets split off from that… Rated Solo random queu, on the other hand, lets you utilize all the casual people doing bgs to boost the rating player count to inflate the brackets, and is the only way you’re going to encourage everyone in bgs to actually try.
I know, you’re a fairly single minded person about trying to make vanilla wsg specifically into an esport, but it’s just not realistically feasible. There just aren’t enough other people who care that much… and all the alternatives beyond solo queu randoms will hurt pvp participation more than help it…
Bro this is classic wow. People will be playing fresh like complete no-lifes.
There has never been a situation in which I found an inability to group up for ques unless I am up extremely early or late. Especially when everyone starts ranking. If nobody’s on just q solo or q up with a few people.
Arena takes the spotlight in retail. And there is and always will be a decent RBG pool for retail.
Classic on the other hand, BGs are an entirely different beast than retail. You even have streamers asking for this. And blizzard will deliver to the audience what they know they want to watch. Just look at the Mak Gorah tournament. Hardcore is a 100% pve game mode yet the viewership of these players is very high rn.
People love to watch things with stakes.
Because currently you don’t get anything out of playing it. Or even ab, past just ranking.
If you added a separate competitive category, and the rewards were titles/mount/armor recolor or something simple like that, EVERYONE would be trying to get them.
The one thing classic is lacking, is an avenue for pvpers to compete for something beyond community events.
The pve players been had theirs. Top speed running guilds get plenty of competition and spotlight. Pvp on the other hand has no such avenue besides what the players make it.
Give players a reason to compete and they will do it.
It’s realy that simple.
Did you know that on classic 2019, around bwl patch, way before the wsg tournament, we had a community of teams that would play preset games on Saturday nights?
There were upwards of 8 to 12 teams playing PER SATURDAY. That’s 240 people playing at the same time coordinated in discord via the wargame feature.
What were we getting out of it? Literally nothing. Blowing hundreds of gold a game just for the fun of playing.
If blizzard added mild/cool rewards for it, people WILL do it.
There was just a small wsg tourney on era. Normally preset games never happen on era ever beyond late night people queing up into the same games. Not even premades, just the pvp players chaining games into eAchother.
The tourney host put up a 100k gold prize pool and what do you know! Teams signed up and played
And if these titles or mounts or whatever were eligible for era transfers?
You’d be dumb not to try to get it
As for rated solo q? I have zero interest in that. I personally don’t know of anyone who actually likes classic pvp that would even be interested in it.
The problem there, is your viewpoint is too myopic. In every instances of wow’s history, rated team v team pvp has 4 outcomes:
Reduction in pvp player pool for casual games (since rated players are off in their own bracket)
RAMPANT cheating/boosting/piloting for the top teams carrying random trash with a credit card.
High queu timers for anyone with decent rating, because wow pvp is already a laughably niche community in general, and that’s before accounting for how fragmented the overall wow player base is (era, wrath, retail, HC), apathy/hatred towards blizzard causing a ton of people to quit outright, and the fact that this would be the THIRD “fresh” in the past 5 years. Tons of vanilla-classic’s popularity was simply because people missed the boat the first time, and/or where nostalgic for what the game was in 2004… The population on fresh will undoubtedly be lower this time around, and it’s unlikely that any rumored alternate-tbc expansion will change that, considering it’d be 1.5-2 years down the road.
Nothing of value for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase, who then proceed to opt out of participating in the system, causing rating deflation since the rating pyramid depends on most of the players being the base of the pyramid… You simply aren’t taking into account human nature, because you’re probably a player who attains gladiator level ratings easily… Most people hit a wall in the 1700s when they start fighting teams who aren’t comprised entirely of potato, realize it’d be too much work to improve enough to get to 2200, and just go pve instead. They literally just don’t engage in rated pvp, and it’s why you see so much of the top players being the same people, their alts, and all the people they piloted/boosted/carried for gold/cash.
Solo Q random solves problems, while team rated q creates a whole host of new ones. You have personally made a number of posts in the past few months crying about how no one on era will play WSG for your premade to stomp them. WSG queus are already bad (though allegedly getting better as people get done pushing AV)… now cut the participation population dramatically because you’re only allowed to fight other teams queuing rated only, and only teams within your rating bracket… are you really expecting your situation to actually improve there? Really??? Your way also would kill off casual bgs, since there’d be zero rewards outside of rated, and casuals wouldn’t play them at all… so congrats, you just murdered another blizzard franchise for them… I’d be surprised if they don’t hire you, killing their own products is kind of their thing now. If anything, rated solo q might STILL be too punishing for pugs, and the algorithm for rating gain might have to essentially make it a handout like the 500k honor thing, just where winning gets you there faster… but at least solo random q causes people to actually try in bgs, and play more than just AV meta.
Retail players play the game entirely different from classic players. Retail is very solo friendly and promoting. Classic is group promoting
That’s just what people do dude. You don’t not release content because “people can cheat” and ruin the fun for everyone else. People cheat in arena and they haven’t disabled that yet. That’s a very blackpill way to look at it. Just dont release games at all because people can cheat.
The only fresh classic really is besides actual 2019, was som. Hardcore is fresh but everything was unlocked at the gate and it’s a different game mode. Dying perma. So a new server was necessary.
You have zero evidence to think the next fresh will be low pop. The timing for it has never been more anticipated. You don’t have any fresh experience beyond what you saw from som1. I actually am extremely confident when I say this one will be MASSIVE just due to its timing alone.
People play this game STILL, because its just a good game. The emotional nostalgia argument can no longer be used. We are going on 5 and a half years now and people are still playing it. I’m still playing vanilla 10 years later. Not because of my emotion, but because of the way it plays.
It is human nature to want to grow. You’re getting it backwards. People will do things in games that feel rewarding to them. That’s the entire point of video games dude. Many people who play vanilla are absolutionists and completists. That’s why the era surge is so large. There are literally full dreadnaught warriors ranking in AV for the title alone. They don’t even need the gear. They just “want it”
This is your presupposition
It’s a good thing blizzard isn’t brain damaged enough to know solo q will not ever be a thing nor will it be popular. At least the classic devs DO know what works and what doesn’t mostly
You claim to say you know classic wow and pvp well, and you think solo q rated in a game like this will be good let alone be functional.
Blizzard knows people aren’t gonna go for a solo q let alone wanna watch rated solo q games.
All it takes is for a team of 9 warriors to pull up in ab when the opposing team is seeded with 4 healers and 6 mages and they’ll immediately figure it out. This works only in your imagination. The team with the most warriors loses. The team with the most mages/healers wins. No amount of skill is going to help a fundamentally countered pug team win when considering both teams are putting in 100% effort. this isnt retail.
Blizzard also likes to add modes they know viewership will eat up. You completely ignored that and we have tons of evidence to show for it:
CDL, past tourneys, MakGorah, world first HC, speed runs, world first rag, devilsaur mafia drama
Competition is a huge thing for classic, and people love to watch it. Streamers are FORCED to participate for views and blizzard knows it. That’s why arena streamers are playing hardcore and doing the makGorah.
Blizzard is not that stupid.
And really we can just write it off entirely. You and I both know that’s never going to happen. Either way, neither is my proposal either, but mine would come before a solo q ever would. They just changed the ranking system and removed safespots, on ptr, and left all the jumps in. That’s all I need to know why.
As for pop and q issues, you can narrow it down quite nicely.
On the respective BG weekend, rated Q is opened and available at the bg emissary. Wsg on wsg week, ab, and yea even AV.
I don’t know about you, but av standard doesn’t sound interesting to watch or even play. For me and prolly many. A rated AV? Now watching 40v40 with some interesting and innovative strats that include clever map coverage, creative hunter traps, mage balls with invis pots, and Druid rogue stealth teams with engi kits sounds like something I would do/watch
But who cares. They aren’t doing anything . It’ll be same old story
I’ve been PVPing for the better part of every single day in order to reach my 500k cap consistently so that I can reach rank 14 and I still have yet to see any “AFK players” with rank 14 weapons.
I acknowledge that bots can AFK AV, but I’m going to have to call bull on the idea that rank 14 botting is some sort of massive and glaringly pronounced issue.
